Braking with steel rims

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rjb
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Braking with steel rims

Post by rjb »

I need to improve the braking on my Kingpin shopper. It has Weinmann 730 brake calipers and matching levers. Wheels are 20" (500A). In the wet braking is dreadful - i sometimes think i could stop quicker by putting my feet down :shock:
Short of having V brake studs brazed on does anyone know of a simple solution. I have tried changing the pads to some spare shimano ones off my road bike but these are meant for alloy rims - even these were marginally better than the originals as fitted. Any advice welcome.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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timdownieuk
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by timdownieuk »

Your best bet might be to change the front wheel for an alloy one. Ideally you'd change both both but the front brake does most of the work so the gains from changing the rear would be less.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tru-build-Wheels-RGH720-Front-Wheel/dp/B004XVQ4PW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1WGNJJQS6ZZ46YGZJPS0 with sell you one for £16.24. Other stores are available.
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mjr
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by mjr »

Someone suggested I should try leather-faced brake pads on my steel-rimmed bike like these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SET-OF-4-LEAT ... 417f23cb1f but I haven't yet done so.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by Bonefishblues »

The answer is in the post above yours, I think. You'll never be confident whilst running steel rims.
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andrew_s
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by andrew_s »

Leather brake pads were what was traditionally used to aid wet weather braking on steel rims. They often had a leather insert rather than a complete leather face.
The best you could say was "not quite as awful".

With steel rims, the safe options are:
a) only ride in dry weather
b) replace the rims with aluminium ones
c) replace the hubs & brakes by hub brakes (drum, or coaster at the rear).
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mjr
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by mjr »

My memory of riding steel rims until 2009ish is that braking is acceptable but not as good as V brakes on alloy. I don't remember steel rims wearing out like alloy ones do, though.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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531colin
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by 531colin »

d) grind the chrome off.

Steel is not too bad in the wet. Chrome is sphincter-wrenchingly awful
rjb
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by rjb »

Unfortunately guys these are 500A wheels and i don't think anyone makes alloy rims in this size (ERTRO 440). So changing the wheels would mean new wheels, tyres, brakes if you could even make them fit, so not really an option.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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timdownieuk
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by timdownieuk »

rjb wrote:Unfortunately guys these are 500A wheels and i don't think anyone makes alloy rims in this size (ERTRO 440). So changing the wheels would mean new wheels, tyres, brakes if you could even make them fit, so not really an option.


Oh dear, looks like you have problems. A look at Sheldon Brown shows that the bead seat diameter is 11mm smaller than 20". Wheels seem to be pretty rare.

From my dim and distant memory, "Fibrax" leather & rubber brake blocks come to mind.

Tim
tatanab
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by tatanab »

rjb wrote:Unfortunately guys these are 500A wheels and i don't think anyone makes alloy rims in this size (ERTRO 440). So changing the wheels would mean new wheels, tyres, brakes if you could even make them fit, so not really an option.
However, ERTRO 451 rims are available in aluminium and there are more options in tyres. Going 451 would also present no problems for the brake reach because the required reach is shorter. I recall reading somewhere that Kingpins had both 440 and 451 rims at one time or another. I do not consider that going to 406 (BMX size) rims is an option. Whilst it would give the best choice in tyres and rims I think the addition reach for brakes would simply be too much, and the reduced bottom bracket height might be a problem (I think it is already a bit low on 440). I have a Kingpin on 440 rims and I have tightened the brake arms on the rear to take out as much flexing on the through bolt as I can; I also replaced the front one with a GB Syncron (1960 s dual pivot) which helps a bit. I have fitted old Koolstop dual compound MTB brake blocks. At present I've only used it in the dry and the braking is ok.

I have another small wheeler on 451 rims which I have changed for aluminium and also fitted deep drop Alhonga dual pivot brakes which means that it brakes as well as any of my other large wheeled machines.
sreten
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by sreten »

Hi,

You need brake pads specifically designed for steel.
These claim to be and Weinmann made :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Weinmann-Co ... 4897.l4275

They look good quality, I'd stock up, 3 full sets for £10.

(I'm assuming the "original" blocks were cheap poor replacements)

rgds, sreten.
MartinC
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by MartinC »

"Braking with steel rims" is an oxymoron (unless you have hub brakes).
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Redvee
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by Redvee »

MartinC wrote:"Braking with steel rims" is an oxymoron (unless you have hub brakes).



You don't brake with steel rims, you pull the brake lever and hope :(
SA_SA_SA
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Re: Braking with steel rims

Post by SA_SA_SA »

Alloy front wheel, dual pivots, brompton (fibrax ASH410BR) blocks on rear steal wheel*?


* good in dry, works a bit in wet so OK for rear.
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