Surly Disc Trucker - Sizing Help Needed...

[chris3vic]

Ok - I'm sure this has been done to death, and I've read a couple of old yet still really helpful threads in a similar vein - but I wanted to ask the question again to see if there are maybe more Surly LHT or DT owners out there who can help me decide.

I'm sold on a Disc Trucker, as I want a disc equipped tourer with 26" wheels to go long distances with moderate to large loads, and also a bike I can do long (60-100m) day rides on carrying a lighter load, but with the options of choosing rougher tracks if I want to.

I'm struggling with frame sizes though. Everything I've read is contradicted by something else.

I'm 5'9" with a PBH of 33" - I guess from everything I've read - and the spreadsheet on the google groups page - I'm ether gonna be a 54cm frame or a 56cm frame. How do I know which?

In terms of stand-over, the 54 has a SO height of 30.6" whilst the 56 has a SO of 32". The 54 would therefore give me a bit of room, and the 56 would be snug.

In terms of top tube length, the 54 has an effective length of 555mm, where the 56 has one of 570. Yeah it's only a 15mm gap, but I think that's the measurement which is going to be crucial. Either can be corrected by the appropriate stem, but what's better? A longer top tube and shorter stem, or a shorter top tube and longer stem?

If it helps, I prefer to ride a tourer with its saddle slightly higher than its drop bars. I'm talking an inch really.

The 53cm Dawes I ride now is similar in sizing to the 56cm Disc Trucker, and I find reach ok, but the bike itself I always found a bit... 'clumsy and awkward' - though not necessarily 'too big' - though it could well be a little on the large side for me considering it has given me a host of knee, back and ankle problems...

[Brucey]

I'm struggling with frame sizes though. Everything I've read is contradicted by something else....

- I'm either gonna be a 54cm frame or a 56cm frame. How do I know which?....

obviously you need a 55cm then...

.... The 53cm Dawes I ride now is similar in sizing to the 56cm Disc Trucker, and I find reach ok, but the bike itself I always found a bit... 'clumsy and awkward' - though not necessarily 'too big' - though it could well be a little on the large side for me considering it has given me a host of knee, back and ankle problems...

well this suggests that your riding position isn't quite right. I'd suggest that before you buy a new frame, you set your position up on your present bike so that it doesn't cripple you, then buy the frame that most easily allows you to set the bike up that way.

cheers

[chris3vic]

With the Dawes I've tried a million and one different things to get it dialled in just right, even had a bike fit done. I just don't "get on" with it. It's been better after the fit - I no longer get a bad back for example, but I do still get knee and ankle pain after long rides and more importantly, because I don't 'love' the feel of the bike, I avoid riding it.

I'm selling the Dawes and will replace it with the trucker. Maybe I'll hate that too, who knows?

[Erudin]

I've got a 52 LHT, not disc but the measurements are the same. I'm 5'7", PBH about 30". I chose the 52 over the 50 as I wanted to be able to get drop bars high for off-roading and the effective top-tube was similar to my Thorn Audax, plus I liked look of a shorter seatpost for a change.

If you want the bars below saddle height I think the 52 or 54 may work better for you than the 56, can't you find any LHT's to test ride near you? I've left the steerer uncut on mine and fitted a Problem Solvers Locking Headset Spacer so I can adjust bar height easily if needed.

Ride wise it feels similar to my 90's steel mtbs but with a longer headtube and steerer, its a fairly stiff ride and for me needs fat tyres for comfort.

[freeflow]

Just had a bike fit done and ended with a radically diifferent ( for me) position.

The process I went through was

1. Cleat position
2. Saddle position
3. Reach (but to the drops)

I ended up going from an 80mm to 130mm stem.

I was a bit concerned by the longer stem but after reading around I found that a longer stem gives more stable steering Social wasn't worried.

So pick the frame that's best for leg length/saddle position and adjust the stem to suit.

[Brucey]

With the Dawes I've tried a million and one different things to get it dialled in just right, even had a bike fit done. I just don't "get on" with it. It's been better after the fit - I no longer get a bad back for example, but I do still get knee and ankle pain after long rides and more importantly, because I don't 'love' the feel of the bike, I avoid riding it.

I'm selling the Dawes and will replace it with the trucker. Maybe I'll hate that too, who knows?

if you still get knee and ankle pain (but your back etc is OK) on the Dawes it suggests that there is something not quite right with the setup of your bike still. There are several possible causes involving you, the bike, the crank length, the Q value, the cleat position, the cleat system. Best to get that looked at, I'd have said. Nine times out of ten this won't affect your frame choice per se but if you need a different crank length, Q value, or wildly different saddle height it might do.

Regarding your choice of bike; you don't say how heavy you are or how heavy your load is likely to be, or indeed how rough the tracks you might go down are. Some folk do this kind of thing on bikes that are actually built pretty light, but just have a decent wheelset and slightly fatter tyres than normal. A 26" wheeled LHT or a DT (which we think has a significantly stiffer fork amongst other things) might well be more than stiff and strong enough for what you want to do, even overkill. It has been my observation that people don't so easily fall in love with bikes that are overbuilt for unladen riding, if that is what they mostly do. Also 26" wheeled bikes are usually very slightly slower than 700C wheeled bikes on a long run; no idea why exactly (lots of theories... ) but I'm not sure anyone has done a good back-to-back test with the same kind of tyre in the two different sizes to bottom this out.

It is the old carthorse vs racehorse dilemma. If it were me I'd be thinking of a 700C wheeled bike, probably with rim brakes. It is a pain when the rims eventually wear out etc but fitting discs means you are lugging a little extra weight around and that the fork is a bit stiffer (in most cases); the knock on from this is that you pretty much have to fit wider tyres for comfort (as others have noted) and maybe the whole bike feels a little bit 'dead' by comparison with something a bit lighter built. If you can swing a leg over a few different bikes and try them out you might get a feel for what suits you here.

Another way of looking at it is that you might have a very good idea of what kind of tyre you want to use, and this then predicates everything else about the bike. So if for example you wanted to use Vittoria's Voyager Hyper tyre, then it is 700C for you; there is no 26" version, only the similarly named 'Voyager' which means a downgrade from 120tpi to 30tpi in the carcass...

cheers

[Valbrona]

My opinion ... Always better to make a smaller frame go bigger with a longer stem than to make a bigger frame go smaller with a shorter stem.

And you're right, (horizontal) top tube length is the most important dimension when sizing up a new frame.

[brucelee]

Hi, I'm 6"2', inside leg 89.5cm which gives my an ideal frame size of 23.6"(60cm) - according to the interweb. So I bought a 60cm LHT. Everybody around me told me I needed a larger frame of the order of 24-25.5". Think they were right - look at the size of the stem. Also look at the size of the stem in the photo in the previous post. Your right to have a good think about this.

[chris3vic]

Thanks all. I'm heading to a shop tomorrow that has the disc trucker in stock, so I'll be able to test then. Will report back!!

[Valbrona]

Hi, I'm 6"2', inside leg 89.5cm which gives my an ideal frame size of 23.6"(60cm) - according to the interweb. So I bought a 60cm LHT. Everybody around me told me I needed a larger frame of the order of 24-25.5". Think they were right - look at the size of the stem. Also look at the size of the stem in the photo in the previous post. Your right to have a good think about this.download/file.php?id=29756&t=1

What are you using a stem like that for? And from the look of your picture you are not using any headset spacers. The pic that Erudin posted has the stem above a number of spacers. Do it that way and you would not need to use such a long stem.

[freeflow]

Hi brucelee

Now that I'm an expert on fitting having had to bike fit sessions <with tongue in cheek> I'm wondering if you don't have problems with the bike setup you show in your picture. The saddle has quite a pronounced downwards tilt which means you will always be sliding forwards. This means you will have to support yoiur self in the saddle with your hands and this will induce tension in the upper body, partucularly the upper arms. shoulders area. Your handle bars also have a pronounced rotation as the drops should be horizontal. As Valbrona says you could also swap out your stem for one that has a less steep angle just my repositions the spaces to below the stem rather than above it.

You might also find, as I did in my latest bike fit, that you can't use a Brooks saddle as it won't go back far enough and so might have to switch to something like a fizik arione. It's not possible to see from the photo but if you don't have a layback on your seatpost you might find you also need a replacement seatpost as well.

Just a few thoughts.

Edited to change aliante to arione

[Brucey]

.....You might also find, as I did in my latest bike fit, that you can't use a Brooks saddle as it won't go back far enough and so might have to switch ...

this is a common complaint and there has been much discussion of seat pins with super layback to them. If anyone has found a well laid back seat pin which is readily available and not too expensive then I'm sure that this would make a lot of people happy.

cheers

[freeflow]

this is a common complaint and there has been much discussion of seat pins with super layback to them. If anyone has found a well laid back seat pin which is readily available and not too expensive then I'm sure that this would make a lot of people happy.

It would certainly make me happy as I'm not convinced that my rear is suited to a fizik arione once the distance goes above 200k. I'll find out this weekend as I'm doing the Mildenhall 300k Audax. The sad bit is that at the 200k point I'm only 5k from my front door so if I'm suffering the temptation to duck out will be huge, especially as the pub is between me and my front door.

Edited to correct the quote (you didn't want to know about data rounding <blush>

[Erudin]

The Thorn Seatpost that came with my Thorn Audax frame has a fair bit of layback. I originally had an inline seatpost on the LHT which did not feel right at all, replaced it with a Truvativ Stylo T20 Layback.

[chris3vic]

Just a quick update. I visited a fantastic LBS today and looked at their Surly's. Amazingly the only truckers they in stock were in 54 and 56. The sizes I'm pondering. The 56 was a 700c. I was in full blown suit and tie work attire, so didn't feel well equipped to take them for a spin, but I'll be back in the next couple of days dressed accordingly. Got to say though, the standover height on the 56 was minimal for me, although the reach seemed ok from a standing position. I would be very worried a out lack of SO though I know its not the most important element.

The 54 felt like a really good fit, but also that it might be a tad congested on a longer ride. I have no idea until I take her for a spin.

I'll almost certainly be purchasing one of them, so will update you with my decision/rationale asap.

First time I've seen a trucker in the flesh. First impressions? I want it.

Thanks all.