'Sealed Bearing' Hubs?

[deliquium]

Anyone had experience of hubs like these where the cartridge bearings appear to rely on their integral seal to keep water out?

Any thoughts?

Click on images for larger versions

[531colin]

How close is the left flange to the dropout? (too close = too dished)

The "sealed"....(read...no user serviceable parts) bearings in a couple of pairs of Sachs hubs I have been using for several years have been problem free, with no very convincing additional weather-sealing. I have drilled the hub barrels to pump them up with grease, but no grease comes out past the bearings, so I don't think much grease actually reaches the bearings.....if the bearings fail, I could replace them with new bearings, and remove the "inner" bearing seal, so grease introduced into the hub barrel reaches the bearings.
Now I think about it, one pair of hubs was second hand when I got them, and I replaced the front bearings which were rusty, the other front hub developed a bit of play due to a slack fit between the bearing and the axle.....Locktite seems to have fixed it.

[gaz]

My Suntour XC hubs have dust covers over the cartridge bearing seals. The covers keep crud off but they won't stop water. Many years all weather service.

Suzue tandem hubs rely on just the integral cartridge bearing seal to keep water out.

[deliquium]

How close is the left flange to the dropout? (too close = too dished)

I have drilled the hub barrels to pump them up with grease, but no grease comes out past the bearings, so I don't think much grease actually reaches the bearings.....if the bearings fail, I could replace them with new bearings, and remove the "inner" bearing seal, so grease introduced into the hub barrel reaches the bearings.

Not sure re the first question. Not particularly bothered given that, thinking of these hubs for recently acquired 1948-ish? 531 Leach Marathon frame and forks that I've 'spragged' to 126mm OLD (don't want to go any further) + there's inherent weakness using screw on freewheel hubs with regard the unsupported drive side axle outboard of the bearings + I'm a 63Kg light rider + I shall build the wheels and consider which spokes to use on the DS + it won't get used a lot + only in wet weather if caught out + it won't be asked to carry loads

I keep forgetting about drilling hubs. Like the idea of removing the inner seal of the cartridge bearings to hopefully get grease into them. Top tip Colin, thanks

[StellaLdn.]

Those are Zenith hubs (at least look exactly the same) with two rubber seals. I'm riding them on my Viscountess and they run absolutely smoothly. Basically, they're bombproof, beautiful, and overall great hubs. Go for it. All my bikes have sealed bearing hubs. Can't recommend them highly enough.

[MikeF]

I've built a wheel using one of those rear hubs, but it hasn't been many miles so I don't know the durability. All I can say so far is that it runs very well and appears to me to be well made.
I have sealed Suntour bearings on a 1980s bike and they still seem good.

[reohn2]

.....Suzue tandem hubs rely on just the integral cartridge bearing seal to keep water out.

And we never had any problem with ours

[Valbrona]

So the only 'seals' are the rubber ones which are integral to the cartridge bearings? At least you can get to them easily enough for cleaning/re-greasing.

You would expect that arrangement to only appear on track hubs and where seals are less important. And the high flanges also kind of shout out 'track hubs'.

[StellaLdn.]

Yes, the seals are rubber, you can easily get new bearings for them. The high flanges may scream 'track', but I'm using them to build wheels for 'vintage' bike projects as they're my passion. They look pretty good on an 1976's re-built Viscount and I built one for my friend, using the same hubs. They're alloy, by the way.

[531colin]

Yes, the seals are rubber, you can easily get new bearings for them. The high flanges may scream 'track', but I'm using them to build wheels for 'vintage' bike projects as they're my passion. They look pretty good on an 1976's re-built Viscount and I built one for my friend, using the same hubs. They're alloy, by the way.

What are the spoke tensions of the left and right sides?

[pete75]

I used to be an engineer in a frozen food plant. Lots of the processing equipment used 2RS bearings, 2RS just means two rubber seals. It was a very harsh environment for bearings but they lasted well enough even though machinery was cleaned with steam hoses at least once every day and more often if the product being processed changed.

[Valbrona]

May I ask how you would remove the bearings in these hubs? Do the axles have a shoulder on each side so that all you need to do is hit the end of the axle with a hammer? Thanks.

(RS = rubber seals. Now I didn't know that).

[breakwellmz]

Removing bearings like these in motorcycle hubs with the same setup was simply a case of pouring boiling water over the hub and the bearings dropping out.

[gaz]

Removing the cartridge bearing from the hubs pictured above would be best done with a bearing removal tool such as Suntour TA-340, in combination with the axle and a hammer .

[deliquium]

Well I went ahead and bought a pair mail order from (thank you StellaLdn.) JD Whisker* - a throw back in time pre internet experience. You ring up and ask if they have what you want, a chap puts the phone down, you hear footsteps, a creaky door open and shut followed by very pleasant silence (enough for several gulps of tea and bites of biscuit) until a door opens, a creak and more footsteps, to be told that yes a pair of Zenith Large Flange hubs 32 hole in silver, 126mm OLD rear are available at a reasonable price. Credit card and address details given at around elevenses time Monday morning.

This morning a particular, neatly wrapped brown papered parcel arrived with a hand written address label and individual stamps delivered 1st Class Signed For. I almost wept with the nostalgia and pleasure it gave me

How close is the left flange to the dropout? (too close = too dished)

I can now answer this - 24mm

What are the spoke tensions of the left and right sides?

I will be able to answer this tomorrow or Thursday when I ride over to Dewi The Bike's to get some Sapim or DT spokes and build the wheels up and check with a rough and ready Park Tool tensionometer

One question for those that know these sort of things - how does one adjust the preload on these bearings?

Protruding from the outboard rubber seal of the pressed in 'sealed/cartridge' bearings, are what look like a 'cone' and its locknut. Presumably the 'cone' nut is just a plain nut pressing up against the inner race of the bearing?

I'm in new fangled territory here and would like advice please

* In years gone by, I loved Whiskers tiny pamphlet stock list of every Campag nut and bolt, to say the least