Bar End Gear Levers - advantages?

[Mick F]

I have this pipe dream to go to 11sp.
I won't buy 11sp Ergos, instead I would use my DT friction levers, but what about friction bar end levers?

Are there any advantages for bar end levers over down tube levers, and what are they?
Specifically referring to dropped bars.

[trieste]

Bar end levers - why? - http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=81104
119 posts to peruse

[pliptrot]

Mick,

the narrower the sprocket pitch the more demanding is the change - I imagine you will need to be fettling with friction levers more-or-less all the time if you use them with 11 speed. I noticed that I needed to up my changing game when I used a 9 speed group (4.35mm pitch) after 6s (all sorts of sprocket pitches) and 7s (5mm). I'd guess it would get old quickly, and Mr C Ampagnolo will then ask for an intemperate quantity of money for some really ugly Ergo levers.

[pete75]

I suspect that after a few hours riding with friction levers Mick would almost automatically move them the right amount to change gear on 11 speed. I like bar ends . My tourer has them and I prefer them to the Ultegra 6800 shifters I have on one bike but the Centaur Ergos I have on another bike are superior to both.

[Valbrona]

You will note that Campag do 11 speed indexed bar end shifters.

[thirdcrank]

You will note that Campag do 11 speed indexed bar end shifters.

Presumably for time trialling bars, rather than drops?

[mrjemm]

You will note that Campag do 11 speed indexed bar end shifters.

Presumably for time trialling bars, rather than drops?

Never used TT bars, but I'd assume they'd fit, seeing as other brands' bar ends fit drops, and I assume they're made to fit TT bars- after all SRAM's (that I have) TT500 have TT in the name...

I must be careful of all these assumptions!

[[XAP]Bob]

You will note that Campag do 11 speed indexed bar end shifters.

Presumably for time trialling bars, rather than drops?

They're probably electric only

Serious question - what's the difference between TT bar ends and "normal" bar ends?

[thirdcrank]

... Serious question - what's the difference between TT bar ends and "normal" bar ends?

Technically, none. The thread's about the advantages of bar end gear levers and I'm making the point, rather clumsily, that the fact that Campag 11 speed bar end levers are available doesn't mean anything more than that in this context. Campag made bar end levers in the 1950's and they were useless. I still have a bike with a pair fitted so I should know.

In more recent times, bar end levers were reinvented for use on time trialling bars but Dawes in particular, saw a use for tourists as an improvement on DT levers. That doesn't mean they are an improvement on STI.

[531colin]

I think that for touring there are advantages in not having combined brake levers/gear shifters intended for "road" gruppos.
Some of this applies to both Shimano and Campag. offerings, some less so...
The advantages are....
able to use full-size Vee brakes with no Travel agent complications
with friction front shift, able to use mountain bike front end (mech./triple chainset) for really low gears
non-indexed front shift also allows continuously-variable "trimming" so you can combine stuff that's not "designed" to work together, eg. 8 speed chain on 9 speed transmission.
I think the most convenient place for the gear levers is next to the brake hoods, not at the ends of the bars.http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=57027&hilit=skinflints&start=165
Downtube levers are without doubt the simplest and most direct.....but most people won't even consider them.

[tim_f]

I think bar ends are good on bikes wit the handelbars fairly high so one rides on the drops a lot. They are great on my Salsa Fargo where default position is the drops. Riding my specialised road bike with STI tonight I kept on going to flick the bar ends (which are not on that bike) when riding on the drops in to the headwind.

[Mick F]

Mick,
the narrower the sprocket pitch the more demanding is the change - I imagine you will need to be fettling with friction levers more-or-less all the time if you use them with 11 speed.

Have you tried?
I have with 10sp, and I would suggest that friction DT levers and narrow sprocket pitch is EASIER than wide sprocket pitch.

Downtube levers are without doubt the simplest and most direct.....but most people won't even consider them.

I'm in the "will consider" camp.
I experimented with my 10sp triple and DT levers and it worked like a dream. Simple, easy, accurate. It was complete surprise to me that they worked so well.

My question is not a comparison of STI/Ergo vs indexed DT levers or indexed BE levers.

My question is asking about DT friction vs BE friction. So far, I can't see any advantages in BE.

[[XAP]Bob]

My question is not a comparison of STI/Ergo vs indexed DT levers or indexed BE levers.

My question is asking about DT friction vs BE friction. So far, I can't see any advantages in BE.

Bar ends allow you to gouge your knees more easily, the cables probably affect bar bag positioning (although less than STI washing lines), but they *do* mean that your hand move less far from the bars, and probably affect "pedalling whilst changing" slightly less (due to different body position). They are also likely more vulnerable to damage when you throw your mercian on the floor at the end of a day

I can see a positional advantage - reaching between your legs has to be more compromising of control than reaching to a bar end. But I think that the thumbies/takeoffs or skinflint versions probably do an even better job in that regard (since you don't even need to take your hands off the bars
Other than that I think it's pretty much honours even between the systems.

[thirdcrank]

IMO, the big problem with the original Campag bar end levers was that they were over-engineered and so lost any ease of adjustment and maintenance. A traditional derailleur gear lever mounts on a boss and there's no technical reason why that should not be anywhere you like with a reasonable cable run to the mech. Convenience for the user suggests handiness for the rider's usual riding position - probably a compromise with drops. The original Campag bar end lever dropped the boss concept and mounted the lever in the space between two projections, and held it in place with a set of unique and uniquely fiddly bits. A lever mounted at both ends is probably stronger than one on a boss, but I've never heard of any boss-mounted levers failing. OTOH, replacing a broken cable on the Campag bar end set up - and they do seem to break with a depressing frequency - involves dismantling the whole bag of tricks. That's fiddly at home and a nightmare at the roadside.

[ChrisButch]

Perhaps worth pointing out that current Shimano bar-end levers can still be toggled to friction mode after fitting. So there shouldn't be any problem with using, say, Dura-Ace bar-ends in friction mode with a Campag 11-speed cassette.
Incidentally also - although I don't think this would apply to you, Mick - it can be disconcerting to change from downtube to bar-end, since the direction of travel of the levers is counter-intuitive. You often find yourself shifting up when you intend to shift down, and vice versa.