rando bike vs touring bike

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Vorpal
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by Vorpal »

You could try Rose Bikes http://www.rosebikes.com/products/bikes ... ing-bikes/

Otherwise, I think that adding bar ends or butterfly bars to the mountain bike is a good idea. It's a relatively easy & inexpensive way to get more hand positions. Also, it may be better to use what you're used to than to try and get something new. Most trekking / touring bikes sold for that purpose in continental Europe will have flat or butterfly (also called trekking) bars, rather than dropped handlebars.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
serbring
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by serbring »

Brucey wrote:
not with any real load on, that is not what they are meant for. It varies with the bike of course but 20kg total (split between front and rear) would be about the maximum for a rando bike or a light touring bike.


In new bikes the spa cycles ones are worth a look for sure and they are good value.



Up to now I have never toured with more than 20kg, and I don't know where I'll travel the next year. Therefore it may be good so I can use the rando bike. I'm surprised there is almost nothing between a rando and a touring bike, I mean only extreme touring bike and extreme rando ones.

If you do most of your riding with no load on, but spec a frame and wheels etc that will take a 20kg+ load front and the same again at the rear, you will often find that you have a bike that is stiffer than it needs to be and is that little bit harsher and less comfortable to ride the rest of the time. So (say) a surly LHT is a great touring bike but I think not such a good choice if you ride mostly unladen.


I see it with my mtb that is quite uncomfortable for commuting or for a short tour.


If you go all spendy on a rando bike you might think about buying a (newly manufactured or old) Singer or Herse machine, or similar. They can be beautifully made and nice enough to ride but arguably differ only in detail from a 1982 dalesman etc, primarily by being able to accept fatter tyres still and by having steering geometry that is well suited to a front-only load.

It is very easy to compare online specifications etc and these days you can just push a button and new bike will turn up in a box a few days later. But no amount of online research will tell you how a bike feels to ride, and that is far more important than any (real or imagined) difference in the specification of the gear shifters etc. That IMHO is the reason you should ride as many different kinds of bike as you can.

If you get a chance to swing your leg over something with a really lightweight steel frame that is fitted with nice supple tyres I would expect you to notice the difference between that and (say) an aluminium frame immediately; for some folk it is like the difference between your favourite song and a cover version; difficult to describe but you know instantly, and one is certainly much better than the other.

hth


I have had MTB and I'm corious of cycling with a road bike and seeing how is different than a MTB. On reality I never use the bike for off-road cycling but before I preferred to save money and to understand what are my real needs. That is not very easy :). I can spend up to 1500€.
Bicycler
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by Bicycler »

Surly crosscheck? Big tyre clearances and very versatile but not an all out touring bike
serbring
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by serbring »

Bicycler wrote:Surly crosscheck? Big tyre clearances and very versatile but not an all out touring bike


Really interesting bike... but also this brand is hard to get in Italy. I have found in local shop the salsa vaya. From bikeradar it seems well rated. what do you think about?
PH
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by PH »

I have two steel bikes, one a SOMA ES sold in the US as a Sports Tourer, what in the UK would be considered an Audax bike. The other a Hewitt Cheviot, which is marketed as a traditional type of tourer. If I set the Hewitt in the same way as the SOMA the difference between them is too small to be relevant to any sort of riding I do. I don't of course have the opportunity to set the SOMA up in the same way as the Hewitt.
I'm 95kg so the points above about a stiff touring frame being uncomfortable unloaded may be true for a lighter riders, though I know someone who must be 30kg lighter than me who also enjoys their Hewitt loaded or unloaded.
serbring
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by serbring »

Vorpal wrote:You could try Rose Bikes http://www.rosebikes.com/products/bikes ... ing-bikes/

Otherwise, I think that adding bar ends or butterfly bars to the mountain bike is a good idea. It's a relatively easy & inexpensive way to get more hand positions. Also, it may be better to use what you're used to than to try and get something new. Most trekking / touring bikes sold for that purpose in continental Europe will have flat or butterfly (also called trekking) bars, rather than dropped handlebars.


The trekking rose bikes are not really my taste. I keep in mind in changing handle bar. I saw that most of eu trekking/touring bikes have the butterfly or straight handle bar, instead the (few) italian, english and american one have dropped one. Which one do you prefer?
Vorpal
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by Vorpal »

My tourer is an early 90s Raleigh hybrid with butterfly bars. However, if I were to buy a new tourer tomorrow, I would probably buy something with drop handlebars. I don't consider them essential, but they are more comfortable for long distance riding. That said, they can also take some getting use to.

IMO, the main thing about using a MTB as a tourer is that the rear axle is closer to the cranks, so in order to not kick your panniers, the weight will have to go back a bit further, which can affect handling. Depending on how much you are carrying, you may want to carry some weight on the front, with a handlebar bag or front rack. I would say that weight distribution / handling can be a little more work to get right using an MTB as a tourer. Pack up your gear on your bike & see how it goes?

Why is your MTB uncomfortable, now? Is it just that you need more hand positions? Would it help to pay for a fitting on your current bike?

Given lots of time to spend on it, I would say that it's best to figure out why the MTB is uncomfortabløe, and what can be done about it before buying a new bike anyway. You are likely to make a better purchase with that understanding.

Without lots of time, I can only recommend riding some bikes, preferebaly lots of bikes and finding something that you think you can ride day in & day out for the length of your tour. If you can, narrow your choice down to a couple of bikes, and see if you can take them for longer rides. If you can, get a professional fitting included with the purchase of your new bike.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Brucey
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by Brucey »

I think a useful analogy is to think of a rando bike as being a racehorse which has been persuaded into another line of work, whereas a full-on touring bike is a carthorse, and a converted MTB is a mule.

You could use any of them for riding with a light load, but some will be faster and more comfortable than others.

BTW when MTBs were still a fairly new idea they mostly had long chainstays, and these bikes made pretty good load luggers. For a short while they had long chainstays, oversize tubes, and rigid steel forks; a pretty good recipe for an expedition touring machine. Modern MTBs and frames with similarly short chainstays make less good load luggers.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Brian73
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by Brian73 »

Raleigh Mirage MTB circa 1990

21 Speed, Reynolds 501 main tubes

This bike had been stood in a garage for nearly 20 years. £45 paid. Required the usual fettling and £20 worth of bits

Image
serbring
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by serbring »

Vorpal wrote:My tourer is an early 90s Raleigh hybrid with butterfly bars. However, if I were to buy a new tourer tomorrow, I would probably buy something with drop handlebars. I don't consider them essential, but they are more comfortable for long distance riding. That said, they can also take some getting use to.

IMO, the main thing about using a MTB as a tourer is that the rear axle is closer to the cranks, so in order to not kick your panniers, the weight will have to go back a bit further, which can affect handling. Depending on how much you are carrying, you may want to carry some weight on the front, with a handlebar bag or front rack. I would say that weight distribution / handling can be a little more work to get right using an MTB as a tourer. Pack up your gear on your bike & see how it goes?


Yes, this is one issue of my bike...:)


Why is your MTB uncomfortable, now? Is it just that you need more hand positions? Would it help to pay for a fitting on your current bike?


I have ever cycled only MTB so I cannot really understand what I don't like of my bike. What I feel is that I don't like the position, I prefer more cycling with my old daily bike (something like http://www.bikeville.com/images/bianchi.jpg) than with my bike, because I feel that I need a more upright position. I'm also pushed to get a new bike because I want to try to do some randos and I can't do them with my mtb.

Given lots of time to spend on it, I would say that it's best to figure out why the MTB is uncomfortabløe, and what can be done about it before buying a new bike anyway. You are likely to make a better purchase with that understanding.
Without lots of time, I can only recommend riding some bikes, preferebaly lots of bikes and finding something that you think you can ride day in & day out for the length of your tour. If you can, narrow your choice down to a couple of bikes, and see if you can take them for longer rides. If you can, get a professional fitting included with the purchase of your new bike.


I totally agree with you...but how can I ride some bikes without buying them? I don't have many friends who love bikes.

What I'm a bit annoyed of my bike is that I spent a lot of money for making it more similar to a tourer bike that I could buy a new bike for that purpose, but at least my bike is unique now! :)
Vorpal
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by Vorpal »

Bike shops should let you try them. You may have to go fairly far afield to find shops that carry suitable bikes, but they do exist.

I found http://www.scavezzon.com/2013/?page_id=649
and something that has no list price... http://www.rossignoli.it/?pg=carrello&ll=I&art=ros028

You could try Decathlon? Or other bikes shop in your area? Part of the idea is not only to try bikes that you might take on tour, but also to try bikes that might help you understand comfortable. So, while it's probably not much use going to a bike shop that only has racing type bikes, it might be worth going to a bike shop that has lots of different types, even if you don't think they will have many touring bikes.

If you don't mind buying something on-line only...
http://www.bike-discount.de/it/shop/bic ... 32/o-preis
If you have a local bike shop, you can ask them if/how much they will charge to help you size and set up something?

You could also try asking on here http://www.ilcicloviaggiatore.it/forum/index.php
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
serbring
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by serbring »

Vorpal wrote:Bike shops should let you try them. You may have to go fairly far afield to find shops that carry suitable bikes, but they do exist.

Interesting I'll try to go to any bike shop.



interesting shops but they're really far from the city I live.

You could try Decathlon? Or other bikes shop in your area? Part of the idea is not only to try bikes that you might take on tour, but also to try bikes that might help you understand comfortable. So, while it's probably not much use going to a bike shop that only has racing type bikes, it might be worth going to a bike shop that has lots of different types, even if you don't think they will have many touring bikes.

If you don't mind buying something on-line only...
http://www.bike-discount.de/it/shop/bic ... 32/o-preis
If you have a local bike shop, you can ask them if/how much they will charge to help you size and set up something?

You could also try asking on here http://www.ilcicloviaggiatore.it/forum/index.php


it's not expensive, I bought my former bike online and I paid only 15€ to set up the bike
serbring
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by serbring »

What about touring with a cyclocross bike?
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531colin
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by 531colin »

@ "serbring"............
I don't want to appear rude, but we need a reality check here. You said..........

serbring wrote:
I have ever cycled only MTB so I cannot really understand what I don't like of my bike. What I feel is that I don't like the position, I prefer more cycling with my old daily bike (something like http://www.bikeville.com/images/bianchi.jpg) than with my bike, because I feel that I need a more upright position
.

If you want an upright riding position like the bike you linked.............

Image


.....its pointless looking at drop bars.........drop bars will lean you further forward, not get you more upright.
serbring
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Re: rando bike vs touring bike

Post by serbring »

531colin wrote:@ "serbring"............
I don't want to appear rude, but we need a reality check here. You said..........

If you want an upright riding position like the bike you linked.............

Image


.....its pointless looking at drop bars.........drop bars will lean you further forward, not get you more upright.


You're on right, but maybe I need an upright riding position because of the frame geometry, for instance...short top tube length. Might it be the case?
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