White Lightning Clean Ride - mixture?

[Mick F]

Please bear with me on this, and let my ramble a bit .........

I've been using White Lightning Clean Ride for quite some years and love it. I use it 12m of the year.

Up until the last bottle I bought, I was of the opinion is was perfect stuff but I'm aware that some folk have had problems with it especially in rain or in the salty roads of winter. Personally, I had no problems whatsoever. I've done all day rides in the rain and my chain didn't suffer at all, I've ridden the length of the country on a few occasions and only applied my WL every day or two. 200miles or thereabouts.

Trouble is, the last bottle I bought - spring last year - and used it right into the winter, it wasn't as good as before! I had to lavish the stuff on to get any value from it. Next bottle I bought - this spring - it's just the same! I would suggest that it's almost rubbish and not worth the money.

This therefore leaves me to think that WL in their wisdom(?) have altered the formula ........ or perhaps it varies from batch to batch and I've ended up with two consecutive bottles of poor quality. This would explain why some folk like it and some folk don't, and why I thought it was good and now I don't.

A couple of weeks ago, as an experiment, I found an old empty WL bottle and decanted about a quarter of the bottle into it, then let it settle for a few days. WL has a two-part system: a blue thin liquid, and a white active ingredient - wax particles. In use, you shake the bottle to mix the two parts and the blue liquid carries the wax into the chain then evaporates.

My small quantity settled into its two parts and I gently poured off about 50% of the blue liquid and disposed of it. This meant that the small bottle was more "concentrated" and I've used this on my chain for the past few weeks.

The difference was fantastic! It was immediately obvious to me that this was more like the WL that I've used before. Previously, my chain would squeak - mainly the KMC Missing Link - after 50miles or perhaps less. Now, it's perfect and I've not reapplied any for nearly 200miles. Just like it used to be.

If I measure the levels in the two bottles I find that the original bottle is 20mm white vs 80mm total volume - 25%.
The decanted bottle with the concentrated liquid measures 10mm white vs 25mm total volume - 40%.

I cannot comment on what the correct figure should be or used to be, but I reckon it has changed recently, or varies generally.

Any comments?

[Brucey]

I think you may have hit upon a very likely explanation; faced with competition on price (or perhaps just a desire for more profit...) 'watering down' a product is the oldest trick in the book.

Quite a few products of this sort are supplied to an (often independent) bottling plant as a concentrate and then the solvent is added during bottling to make the end product. WD40 is made like this, for example. It doesn't take much for a mistake to be made, or a fiddle to take place, even if the 'recipe' is still meant to be the same.

Other manufacturers make their name with one product, and then cynically trade on their reputation whilst selling an inferior version. 'Armor All' did exactly that IIRC; their first product was fantastic, but later versions were just watery rubbish by comparison.

cheers

[Mick F]

I think you may have hit upon a very likely explanation; faced with competition on price (or perhaps just a desire for more profit...) 'watering down' a product is the oldest trick in the book.

Yep.
Keep the price the same, and make the product smaller.

[fatboy]

I have found the same thing with Prolink Gold.

[Mick F]

Now THAT is interesting!

Could it be that there are so many chain lubes out there, so the only thing they can compete on is the price?
Could it be that they are cutting corners to make them "better value"?

No doubt they'll cut back and back and back until sales start to drop off. Meanwhile long-standing users will notice the quality decline.

[jb]

Cleaning products go through the same cycle. The only effective way to remove grease is caustic, highly concentrated caustic cleans wonderfully - its also dangerous. So, a company wants to bring out new amazing cleaner they up the caustic concentration slightly and it not surprisingly works better than other products, then when its got the reputation wind it back down to make it no different than any other cleaner and stops them getting sued from burn claims.

[Psamathe]

I would e-mail the manufacturers; let them know their trick has been spotted and that their market is quickly becoming aware of what they have done (through e.g. forums like this one) and that the new dilute product is really no good.

And do let us know what response you get.

I feel it important to let manufacturers know their tricks to exploit us and through their greed extract more profit for less product is noticed and will not work. Apart from which, many might not notice and just end-up buying more chains as things wear out quicker (making more profit for the chain manufacturers),

Ian

[Mick F]

Yes, I have thought about emailing WL, but I have no evidence to back up my thoughts.
I never measured the proportions of the mix before, so I cannot say anything other than my concerns now.

I reckon it changed about a year ago, but some folk have always said that it's not very good, whereas I've always said - up until now - that it was good.

It's very possible that it changed years ago and stock levels have taken a while to work through different outlets/sellers, or it's possible that the mix varies from batch to batch.

[niggle]

It could just be poor quality control: I bought a bottle of Green Oil White Chain Wax once and it was almost entirely solvent-, i.e. ethanol, and when the water like substance was applied to the chain 90+% just evaporated away leaving a faint dusting of white wax powder on the chain. Later I found out that mine was from a bad production run and runs before and after had been more normal. I theorise that they just forgot to stir the tank before pouring into the bottles....

I have always had good results with this Halfords Bikehut Dry Lubricant which has Teflon, = PTFE, in it and comes in a dark coloured bottle, maybe you should give it a go MIck:

http://www.halfords.com/cycling/tools-m ... lube-125ml

OTOH do not buy the one called Bikehut Drywax Lubricant which comes in a clear bottle (with no mention of PTFE/Teflon on it) as it is quite short lived IME even though there is plenty of wax in the mixture:

http://www.halfords.com/cycling/tools-m ... lube-125ml

This Pure brand one is just a bit better than the Drywax one IME:

http://www.halfords.com/cycling/tools-m ... lube-100ml

I have just started a bottle of this Muc-Off brand one, also with PTFE in it and it seems quite good, possibly still not quite as long lasting as the top Bikehut one with Teflon/PTFE in it, but it does have a very good spout design:

http://www.halfords.com/cycling/tools-m ... -lubricant

[Psamathe]

Yes, I have thought about emailing WL, but I have no evidence to back up my thoughts.
I never measured the proportions of the mix before, so I cannot say anything other than my concerns now.

I reckon it changed about a year ago, but some folk have always said that it's not very good, whereas I've always said - up until now - that it was good.

It's very possible that it changed years ago and stock levels have taken a while to work through different outlets/sellers, or it's possible that the mix varies from batch to batch.

I would e-mail them anyway (and give them your thoughts).

If they just have poor quality control, then it will help them appreciate the problems, how it can impact their business and they should quickly sort it out (if they have any sense).

If it is a deliberate "improve profits" move, then they will appreciate that it probably wont work and that they will probably lose business and thus have lower profits from the change.

Either way, if they are any sort of company they should appreciate your feedback.

Ian

[mercalia]

atleast with sweets they just make them smaller? Mars bars etc not the same size as they used to be & cost more lol

[trull]

I had to relube mid-ride last weekend as the chain was getting stiff...not impressed with the Clean Ride at all. Will try Finish Line ceramic next...

[mjr]

I've a small but nearly full bottle of Finish Line ceramic wax. I stopped using it because it performed poorly, picking up road dirt, then falling off to leave an unlubricated chain. The bottle has settled. On the MickF measurement scale given above, I think it's 20-25% white, so don't expect old-style WL performance with that either.

I've also a near-empty bottle of Finish Line ceramic wet. That worked nicely as a lubricant but did seem to attract a lot of road dirt and want frequent cleaning.

This summer I am mostly using Weldtite TF2.

[123malford]

Roughly measuring a 3/4 full bottle of Clean Ride there appears to be about 18 % wax. The other day I could hear the Campag 10 sp chain become noisy within less than 50 miles. I would have thought that wear from lack of lube is occurring before one can hear it. Has anyone given Juice Lubes Ceramic a go ? http://www.juicelubes.co.uk/chain-juice ... 100ml.html

[Mick F]

Email to White Lightning;

Hi,
I've been using White Lightning Clean Ride, and Original before that, since 2004. Up until recently, I have been very happy with it.

However, I noticed that my last 240ml bottle plus the one I'm using now are not as good as they once were. Maybe a year has gone by with rather poor performance.

I have no absolute proof of this, just my own observations. The consistency of WL CR has changed to its detriment.

I used to be able to ride about 200miles between applications, but now I barely get 50miles. I decided to let my latest bottle settle for a few days and measured the white versus the blue as it layered out in the bottle. It seems I have about 25% white perhaps slightly less.

After shaking the bottle, I poured off some into an empty bottle and let it settle, then gently poured out about 50% of the blue. This gave me a 40% white reading.

After shaking this bottle, I applied the result and found to my delight that I could go for 200miles again. I will now pour off the blue in the main bottle and continue with it like that.

My chain would be squeaking at 50miles, and now the chain is silent ..... like it should be ..... and used to be.

I think that you have diluted your product, and to be honest I doubt I'll be buying any more of it unless it returns to what it once was.

I raised this subject on my favourite cycling forum.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=88573

Thank you for your attention on this matter and I really want to use White Lightning Clean Ride again as you have an excellent product. It's a pity that it has changed.

Please get back to me with your thoughts on this matter.

Regards,
Mick