Ad nauseum, life of composites

[reohn2]

Not my favourite company perhaps but interesting reading.

I don't suppose anyone on here would be daft enough to ride an aluminium bike?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/86919 ... bon-bikes/

One of my bikes has an aluminium frame, and I quite like it.

p.s. it also has carbon forks

Two of mine have aluminium frames,I like both of them(neither of which have any carbon fibre anything),they're both made comfortable by nice wide supple tyres

[mig]

brucey - i always appreciate your comments and weight of your professional opinion as you say. you do not however have access it seems to sales figures at a local shop which would conclude this thread in absolute fashion .

am i allowed to say that i actually like riding steel bikes? light enough for my needs, resilient, craftsman made etc etc. great. for a good example - what's not to like?

[Brucey]

warranties make interesting reading;

Giant

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/backoffice/_upload_au/Giant-global-Warranty-Policy.pdf

Marin (US)

http://www.marinbikes.com/support/resources/marin-mountain-bikes-warranty-policy

Schwinn (US)

http://www.schwinnbikes.com/int/support/warranties/

specialized (US)

http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/manuals/OM0232_Warranty_r1.pdf

'don't ride our bikes (or bars, stems, or seat posts) if you are 240lbs or more'

trek (US)

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/support/warranty/

focus (US)

http://www.focus-bikes.com/fileadmin/Media/Images/Service/Download/2014_Warranty_USA.pdf

claud butler

http://claudbutler.co.uk/uploads/files/cb_full_manual_small_size.pdf

dawes

http://dawescycles.com/warranty-information/

many of these warranties don't any longer distinguish between frame materials, but where they do so, it is not in favour of CF, but quite the reverse. It is worth noting that all these warranties contain exclusions galore, and actually claiming on them is not a uniformly joyous experience.

cheers

[mark a.]

The bicycle has been around for over 100 years but in that time there have only been 2 big materials: steel and aluminium. Titanium hasn't made it into the big-time. It looks like CF is the new alloy: racing bikes first, trickling down to hybrids. Alloy had its teething problems until people really understood it, and the same will be for CF. Touring cyclists never really got on with alloy, and stuck with steel.

In other words, is this just a rehash of the arguments when aluminium came onto the scene?

Steel is still around, is still doing well and is still improving. I'm sure even if CF does take over, steel will remain.

[Brucey]

....am i allowed to say that i actually like riding steel bikes? light enough for my needs, resilient, craftsman made etc etc. great. for a good example - what's not to like?

Me too. Some people might take against them because they are 'old fashioned'.

Personally I can't wait for them to grasp the nettle and make bike frames using superbainitic steel. Now that would be something brilliant.

cheers

[tim-b]

Hi

Re: manufacturers' advice...
When I worked nights (years ago, thankfully) I used an over-the-counter sleeping tablet (during the day!), "May cause drowsiness"

and ate peanuts with, "May contain nuts" on the packet

I bought both products for these very properties, but there is the other side of the same warning that is intended for those who can't work out that peanuts contain nuts, and that if bicycle frames get damaged they may break

Psychologically, many people pay more attention to a pessimistic message rather than the optimistic one, it's difficult for me to accept that if a frame breaks then the output of an entire country is suspect

Regards
tim-b

[reohn2]

..........I bought both products for these very properties, but there is the other side of the same warning that is intended for those who can't work out that peanuts contain nuts, and that if bicycle frames get damaged they may break......
Regards
tim-b

But more often than not,if a metal bicycle frame takes a knock it dings or the paint chips/scratches but it remains usable and doesn't compromise the whole structure ie;generally it can be ridden with confidence .CF may crack with the same force and be rendered useless even if the damage isn't evident,it's that fickleness that makes it vulnerable for ever day use.
I realise that's a bit of a sweeping statement but is valid generally,and has a huge bearing on why metal is far better than CF in real world use.

[reohn2]

The bicycle has been around for over 100 years but in that time there have only been 2 big materials: steel and aluminium. Titanium hasn't made it into the big-time. It looks like CF is the new alloy: racing bikes first, trickling down to hybrids. Alloy had its teething problems until people really understood it, and the same will be for CF. Touring cyclists never really got on with alloy, and stuck with steel.

In other words, is this just a rehash of the arguments when aluminium came onto the scene?

See my reply to TimB above as to why CF isn't the same as metal,alu or steel and why IMO that argument doesn't hold water.

Steel is still around, is still doing well and is still improving. I'm sure even if CF does take over, steel will remain.

CF will be forced upon joe public,not because it's better but because there's more profit in it for those who make bicycles.
Of course metal bicycles will remain

Edit

[[XAP]Bob]

No mention of CF

CF - 5 years, Other materials lifetime

Other materials lifetime. CF not included?

"Riders approaching 250lbs shouldn't ride composite seat posts handlebar stem or bars"
1 year warranty (original owner only)

Lifetime, except Al (3 years) and Carbon (2 years)

5/6 years, no mention of materials

lifetime, but all up load of 120kg

Steel/Titanium - 5 years
Alloy - 3 years
Carbon - 1 year

[Brucey]

thanks Bob!

I also note with interest that the Giant warranty is limited to ten years in the case of forks now? They make quite a few bikes with alu and CF forks these days.

cheers

[irc]

10 yrs is generous. The Specialized lifetime warranty is only the frame, not including forks.

The lifetime Limited Warranty is conditioned upon
the bicycle being operated under normal conditions and use, and properly maintained. This
Limited Warranty does not apply to paint/finish or components attached to the bicycle/
frameset such as front forks, wheels, drive train, brakes, seat post, handlebar and stem,
or any suspension related parts or components.

Seems to be a 1 yr warranty on the forks.

[Bonefishblues]

[/quote]

"Riders approaching 250lbs shouldn't ride composite seat posts handlebar stem or bars"
1 year warranty (original owner only)

I love that. "Approaching". Yep, that's not ambiguous...

[Dave W]

Remember, the warranties are not for crash damage. Stack your bike into an oncoming bus and the end result is much the same. I doubt these days insurance companies would have a metal bike repaired or rebuilt either. Most owners would rather go for a new frame anyway over a repaired one. Times have changed.

[Brucey]

if the frame is broken it is broken, end of.

But if your CF frame/component has been in any kind of a prang or is even suspected of having seen unusually high service loads then the recommendation is to replace it, even if it looks OK.

The same thing does not apply to metal parts; if they are damaged they almost invariably show it by being dented, bent or cracked.

BTW I note with interest that in one of the earlier linked articles the (at first sight impressive) ASTM strength testing of forks was described. The problem with this test is that the progressive increase in stress levels doesn't represent reality; a single overload can happen at any time. With a metal fork it (say) bends , but a CF fork can crack internally, unseen. It will then be subject to failure perhaps at a very low number of reversals at low stress; [this possibility is why CF airframes are fitted with acoustic emission sensors etc]. This kind of thing could explain the number of 'JRA' failures reported.

I also note that the overload which is required to (say) create a radial dent in a front wheel will also create exceptionally high stresses in a front fork and frameset too; very likely these stresses are instantaneously far in excess of the 'normal' service stresses for which the parts are designed; (many wheels will take between 0.5 and 1 tonne radially before they get stoved in, but it varies with the shape of the surface the wheel bears against). It may well be that if you (say) run through a bad pothole that flat spots your front rim, you should think about binning your CF fork/frame too.

cheers

[Dave W]

But nobody does do they?