Dawes Ulta Galaxy disc mounts

[murray]

I bought a Dawes Ultra Galaxy from Spa Cycles before Christmas.I had problems setting up the disc brakes and contacted Spa cycles.The were very helpful and offered to pay for the refacing of the disc mounts or pay for its return and they would do the work. My local Dawes dealer in Taunton assured me Dawes would have told them if there was a fault and they turned down the work. Spa paid for the bikes collection and return after refacing the mounts. To get the mount correctly refaced they had to file off some of the weld which had run down. They told me that all the Ultras they had proved to have a similar problem . Dawes claimed there was no problem. The Galaxy is smothered in Union Jacks yet none of it is made in this country now. Has anyone else had a similar problem? I have to say I am grateful to Spa for the way they dealt with it . I shall keep the parts but have a Dawes frame that will be on ebay soon .

[Brucey]

IIRC Spa have effectively instituted their own recall for this work without Dawes support. Dawes seemingly know about the problem but don't want to pay for it to be resolved.

This kind of thing has been going on for years. Back in the 1980s I asked the then MD of Dawes why it was that their seat tubes were not reamed (and the seat pins were such a poor fit in them) and why the BB threads were so sloppy, and clearly hadn't been chased after brazing and paint. The answer was 'cost' I was told. He then proceeded to try and lecture me on engineering tolerances etc. I asked him if he had actually seen how sloppy the BB threads were in his bikes and (after a few political sidetracks) he admitted 'no'. I explained to him that the threads were so sloppy in their bikes that they BB installation was typically less than half a strong as it should be, even in tandems where it sees about twice as much load.

At the time their bikes were only a little cheaper than a half-decent handbuilt frame and comparable build kit. I couldn't see that the actual engineering in the frames justified that price tag.

I think that standards probably varied over the years but that the 'that'll do' mentality carries over in to Taiwanese frame/bike production is simply astonishing. If you don't do a recall for brakes that don't work properly, when do you do a recall...?

cheers

[wintergreen]

I too bought a Galaxy from Spa and got a phonecall offering to correct the badly finished brake mounts. They gave me the option of finding somewhere local to do they work and they would pay or taking the bike back to them and they would do the work.
As I had a few days off work I arranged with them for me to take the bike to Harrogate, figuring they were doing the work off their own back and assumed they would rather do the work in house rather than pay somebody else.
I spent the best part of a morning getting there, a bit of a ride then 2 trains but what the hell it was a day out. When I did get there I was given about as much welcome as a fart in a space suit. Somebody who looked like a low rent Wayne Hemmingway pulled his face, muttered something about wasting his day doing the work and begrudgingly took my bike into the back of the shop and told me to come back in a few hours.
I went in to Hrrogate and had a walk round as I had never been there before, grabbed a bit of lunch and generally wasted a few hours before returning to Spa.
When I got to the shop Wayne Hemmingway lookalike stuck his head around from the workshop and said theres your bike go have a ride and make sure its ok. I didnt need to ride the bike to see it wasnt ok, The brake levers when pulled went all the way back to the handlebars barely working the brakes. I said to him the brakes arent right, he grunted and took the bike into the worksop and came out a minute later and said i have adjusted the brakes thats as good as they are going to be.
The brakes now worked but nowhere near as good as they were before I took the bike back. I told him this and he replied they are [inappropriate word removed] brake levers dont blame us.
It was obvious I wasnt going to get any joy out of him so I took the bike thinking no problem I will set them up myself when I get back home. As I started to ride back to Harrogate it started to rain a little so I stopped to get a jacket out of a pannier and thats when I noticed a fresh scratch on the top tube, so fresh the paint which had been scraped was still attached. Bugger my first scratch and I didnt get the pleasure of doing it. I continued riding back to Harrogate and noticed the back brake getting continually worse, on inspection the cable clamp wasnt tight and the cable was pulling through as I used the brake.
Once I eventually got home and set the brakes up myself they were much improved over what they had been before I took the bike to Spa but the way I was spoken too and treated in the shop left a lot to be desired. On reflection maybe I shouldnt have tried showing a bit of customer loyalty by spending an entire day getting there and back at my expense. It would have been a lot easier to drop the bike at the nearest Evans and let them do the work at Spa's expense.

[Valbrona]

I think that standards probably varied over the years but that the 'that'll do' mentality carries over in to Taiwanese frame/bike production is simply astonishing. If you don't do a recall for brakes that don't work properly, when do you do a recall...?

Mostly good kit comes out of Taiwan these days. But not the Czech Republic.

[murray]

The Ultra frame is made in Cambodia.

[CREPELLO]

Well the older pre disc frames were made just over the paddy field in Vietnam. Obviously they'll be made anywhere...but the UK

[honesty]

As another Taunton local I can guess which shop you were talking to, and in general I have to say I have good experiences there, but I can see why they would not want to start a job when they haven't had the word from Dawes direct. Probably just being cautious.

Spa have taken this recall on their own back in what seems to be their usual rather abrupt way. there doesn't seem to be any collaboration of the issue from other sources that I can see. Not saying their isn't a problem though and fair play on them for doing something about it, but just look at their relationship with Brooks to see how bad this could go for Spa

[Brucey]

they usually have a sticker on them saying where the bike was built, but I'm not sure that the frame will necessarily have been stuck together in the same locale.

At one time (quite recently) the top end ones were made in Taiwan and the others elsewhere.

IIRC Dawes often just say 'Asia' these days as if that means anything...

cheers

[horizon]

I don't know if this has already been flagged up but Dawes have had this on their website for a while now:

http://dawescycles.com/shimano-disc-brake-recall/

They obviously consider it a Shimano problem (there is a link to Shimano's own statement) but have acted on it (it would appear) and consider that the problem is being/has been resolved.

I don't want to be an apologist for Dawes - they are a mass market/mass marketed brand with all the usual pitfalls and probably always were. Although I no longer buy Dawes bikes (we have 9 currently in use in the family) I nevertheless want to feel able to recommend them to new cyclists so I do want us to get this right.

[honesty]

I don't know if this has already been flagged up but Dawes have had this on their website for a while now:

http://dawescycles.com/shimano-disc-brake-recall/

They obviously consider it a Shimano problem (there is a link to Shimano's own statement) but have acted on it (it would appear) and consider that the problem is being/has been resolved.

I don't want to be an apologist for Dawes - they are a mass market/mass marketed brand with all the usual pitfalls and probably always were. Although I no longer buy Dawes bikes (we have 9 currently in use in the family) I nevertheless want to feel able to recommend them to new cyclists so I do want us to get this right.

I believe thats actually a different problem, and Shimano have replaced the BR515 brakes with an updated model, BR517, to rectify this.

[Valbrona]

The Ultra frame is made in Cambodia.

'Ultra' and 'Cambodia' in the same sentence is a bit awkward.

[mrjemm]

Funny how things change over time; Taiwan now being considered the choice of places for frames to be built. On the evidence though, it makes sense.

Before my time, but wasn't it that with motorbikes, and other things, 'Made in Japan' meant cheap'n nasty, and then that became premium. Likewise, when I was in HK, looking for a gameboy (I was young, OK!), and there were 3 grades of them; those made in Japan were rare and the best made, with best materials, then there were China and Taiwan I think, but can't remember which order they were in. But, the materials quality was visibly different, and the screens varied greatly.

I wonder now, how clear the difference would be between a similar frame made in different locations. QC would obviously count for a lot, but the experience of Taiwanese frame builders is now a frequently mentioned factor, as is their enthusiasm even.

When I've visited Cambodia, I'd have called it ultra dirty and ultra poor, but I bet it's changed now. As with all products made in the less developed parts of the world though, you have to consider the working conditions of the staff. At least in Taiwan, I would suspect there are some labour laws and controls of abuse. I'd question those in Cambodia and Vietnam. Just how ethical are your Dawes'?