Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

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OnYourRight
Posts: 283
Joined: 30 Jun 2013, 8:53pm

Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by OnYourRight »

reohn2 wrote:Yep the weight is slightly optimistic mine weigh 404 to 410g on the box is 37-622,on the tyre 37-622 & 700x35c.
They measure 35x35 on a 19mm internal width rim.

Good to know. I suspect the tyre that PlanetX was selling as 35 mm for a while is the very same one.

For what it’s worth, every tyre I’ve weighed (not that many, but a few) has weighed a little more than the manufacturer claimed.
Brucey
Posts: 44521
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by Brucey »

I've weighed some too, and a sample of four tyres weighed between 407g and 417g each. Judging from the numbers inside the covers, they have a serial number and a date code inside each one; the tyres appeared to be consistently of a similar weight according to what I take to be the manufacturing date, with 2011 tyres being slightly lighter than 2012 ones. Maybe the moulds have worn or something.

They do seem to have a lot of release compound on them, too. If fitting these tyres to non-hook bead rims especially, I recommend that both the rim and the tyre bead are thoroughly cleaned using something like lighter fluid first. I would also say that if you leant over for the first time in the wet, on a smooth surface, you would be on your ear for sure; out of the box they seem very slippy indeed and will remain so until scrubbed in nicely, I'd imagine.

cheers
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Scunnered
Posts: 224
Joined: 11 Apr 2014, 11:23am

Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by Scunnered »

OnYourRight wrote:Good to know. I suspect the tyre that PlanetX was selling as 35 mm for a while is the very same one.


Indeed, the Voyager Hyper, sold as 37mm, is labelled 37-622 & 700x35c on the tyre.
I believe the Randonneur Hyper, sold as 35mm, is the same size.

BTW, PXs stock control system is broken. I ordered a Randonneur on the 10th, and 5 days later they emailed to say they had "oversold" it and it was now out of stock. Fortunately the Voyager was back in stock by this time and I was able to get this as a substitute.
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by reohn2 »

Scunnered wrote:
OnYourRight wrote:
Good to know. I suspect the tyre that PlanetX was selling as 35 mm for a while is the very same one.


Indeed, the Voyager Hyper, sold as 37mm, is labelled 37-622 & 700x35c on the tyre.
I believe the Randonneur Hyper, sold as 35mm, is the same size.

BTW, PXs stock control system is broken. I ordered a Randonneur on the 10th, and 5 days later they emailed to say they had "oversold" it and it was now out of stock. Fortunately the Voyager was back in stock by this time and I was able to get this as a substitute.


The Randonneur and Voyager are the same tyre,Vittoria changed the name from R to V,I assume so they don't get mixed up with their two Randonneur and Randonneur Pro tyres,which are different having slightly thicker centre tread and an extra anti puncture layer.The Pro is a folder,non Pro is wired.
The Randonneur Pro has the same 120TPI carcass as the Hypers,whereas the ordinary Randonneur is only 30TPI :shock: a completely different carcass.The difference in feel ie;rolling a tyre before fitting,between the fingers across the tread is marked,the 30TPI carcass being no where near as supple.
I plan to buy a pair of the Randonneur Pro's 700x40's for winter so I'll report back when and if go ahead and I've put some miles on them.
All that said I have a pair of the Randonneur 30TPI ones (£20 a pair from Decathlon) in 559x40 on the childback tandem and they're OK,though we don't ride very far,max is about 35miles.

EDIT, BTW I'd really like to hear what others think of these tyres(Hypers),are you as impressed as I am?
What do you think of them in the wet?
What TP's are you running them at?
Etc,etc.....
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by Brucey »

according to these tests;

https://www.fietsersbond.nl/sites/default/files/test_schwalbe.pdf

The standard 30tpi Randonneur (#6 on the list) consumes 35.5W (averaged between 25 and 20 kph @ 4bar)

vs the Hyper version (#13 on the list) which similarly consumes 20.5W.

For nominally similar tyres I find it incredible that there should be such a difference, but there it is. I guess between the casing and the tread differences it all adds up.

The Randonneur Pro appears to be slightly heavier than the Hyper and some folk say that it is more puncture resistant. I think like the standard Randonneur, it has a thicker tread than the hyper; it might be that this significantly increases the Crr value even if the casing is otherwise similar.

BTW although the fietserbond tests give the Grand Bois tyre a lower average Crr, I note with interest that they have (unlike other tyres) averaged this over 4 bar and 6 bar values. Then again maybe this is fair because it is a narrower tyre (30-622) than the others in that table.

Anecdotally, I have often run tyres (as a pair) until the tread is worn very thin. When fitting similar new ones, I have often felt that the bike was immediately significantly slower; again I suspect that the tread thickness has a lot to do with it.

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by reohn2 »

Brucey wrote:according to these tests;

https://www.fietsersbond.nl/sites/default/files/test_schwalbe.pdf

The standard 30tpi Randonneur (#6 on the list) consumes 35.5W (averaged between 25 and 20 kph @ 4bar)

vs the Hyper version (#13 on the list) which similarly consumes 20.5W.

For nominally similar tyres I find it incredible that there should be such a difference, but there it is. I guess between the casing and the tread differences it all adds up.

I agree,but what also surprises me more than anything on that chart is the differences between M/Racer,Kojak and Hypers,30% is a lot :shock:


The Randonneur Pro appears to be slightly heavier than the Hyper and some folk say that it is more puncture resistant.

That's a logical conclusion but anecdotally,my experience is one puncture in 3k miles isn't a bad average IMHO,given that I ride quite a bit off road on stony tracks and bridleways.Though the thicker tread of the Rando Pro may be better for people who ride on flint infested roads and tracks.

Note:-Later I'll post a photo of the offending puncture site later to show how bad the gash is in the casing.

I think like the standard Randonneur, it has a thicker tread than the hyper; it might be that this significantly increases the Crr value even if the casing is otherwise similar.

No doubt IMHO.

BTW although the fietserbond tests give the Grand Bois tyre a lower average Crr, I note with interest that they have (unlike other tyres) averaged this over 4 bar and 6 bar values. Then again maybe this is fair because it is a narrower tyre (30-622) than the others in that table.

I'm not too worried about the Crr of the GB tyre being lower as it costs a fortune for a cycle tyre :shock: ,isn't readily available in the UK,it's a narrower tyre anyway,and the Crr difference is negligible.So no (£)pain and not much(if any)gain,comfort may be another issue but it'd have to be a significant increase to offset other the considerations

Anecdotally, I have often run tyres (as a pair) until the tread is worn very thin. When fitting similar new ones, I have often felt that the bike was immediately significantly slower; again I suspect that the tread thickness has a lot to do with it.

Again I agree and I've even read reports of people 'shaving' GB tyres with a belt sander to speed them up :? :roll:
Bonkers doesn't begin to describe such practices IMHO.
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Brucey
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Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by Brucey »

re the puncture resistance; I chose my words carefully! It is difficult to interpret what Vittoria's relative claims for puncture resistance are, because they use various forms of wording that can be interpreted in different ways... :roll:

cheers
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OnYourRight
Posts: 283
Joined: 30 Jun 2013, 8:53pm

Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by OnYourRight »

Brucey wrote:according to these tests;

https://www.fietsersbond.nl/sites/default/files/test_schwalbe.pdf

The standard 30tpi Randonneur (#6 on the list) consumes 35.5W (averaged between 25 and 20 kph @ 4bar)

vs the Hyper version (#13 on the list) which similarly consumes 20.5W.

For nominally similar tyres I find it incredible that there should be such a difference, but there it is.

It’s a surprisingly large difference, but I think it really is a case of the similarities between these tyres being nominal only – the name being the same for some marketing reason or other.

However, while the Hyper is light and certainly has pliable sidewalls, it doesn’t immediately strike me as super-fast in the hand. The tread area is not nearly as pliable as the sidewall.

It doesn’t surprise me that it’s faster than the practically puncture-proof options from Schwalbe, but I’d still like to see another couple of tests backing up its supposedly brilliant performance. Anyone know of any?

Brucey wrote:Anecdotally, I have often run tyres (as a pair) until the tread is worn very thin. When fitting similar new ones, I have often felt that the bike was immediately significantly slower; again I suspect that the tread thickness has a lot to do with it.

I noticed a small increase in fuel consumption when replacing worn tyres on my car with new tyres of the same model. Of course car tyres have far more tread than bicycle tyres (but cars go faster so rolling resistance may matter less).
beardy
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by beardy »

I noticed a small increase in fuel consumption when replacing worn tyres on my car with new tyres of the same model


That is very observant of you, I find too many other variables.

However you should get a drop in "observed" mpg as your speedometer will be reading a lower distance travelled than before due to the increased tyre diameter.
OnYourRight
Posts: 283
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Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by OnYourRight »

Good point about tread wear affecting wheel diameter and therefore reported fuel consumption as based on estimated speed from wheel speed. However, that must be a very small change. The fuel consumption change was fairly significant (I’ll have to try to find my notes on this for more details). I measured with a ScanGauge on an OBD2 port, which probably isn’t totally accurate either.

I don’t drive much in Paris (where I live), and I don’t drive much on motorways. So much of my driving is at relatively low, relatively constant speeds. In these circumstances rolling resistance probably matters a lot more than at 120 km/h or in start-and-stop traffic in the city.

I remember reading that this tyre-wear effect was a barrier to low-rolling-resistance tyres gaining more market share. Drivers were comparing their old worn tyres to new eco-tyres with deep tread, with the difference in fuel efficiency being smaller than they hoped for. So it’s presumably a significant effect (on cars, at least).
Bicycler
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Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by Bicycler »

That test records the 'wattage' of the 700x37c Marathon Plus and 700x40c Marathon Racer as being the same at the same pressure. Now I've ridden both and don't buy that at all. It makes me dubious about the accuracy of the other results. I've ridden the Conti Contacts and their value seems excessively high as well
OnYourRight
Posts: 283
Joined: 30 Jun 2013, 8:53pm

Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by OnYourRight »

Bicycler wrote:That test records the 'wattage' of the 700x37c Marathon Plus and 700x40c Marathon Racer as being the same at the same pressure. Now I've ridden both and don't buy that at all. It makes me dubious about the accuracy of the other results.

But Schwalbe says the Marathon Plus rolls well!

More interestingly, Mike Burrows did some tests, reported in an issue of Velo Vision, which showed the Marathon Plus was far better than it had any right to be (though he may have tested 20-inch tyres – I can’t remember).

Like you, though, I would like to see other tests backing up these results.
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by reohn2 »

OnYourRight wrote:More interestingly, Mike Burrows did some tests, reported in an issue of Velo Vision, which showed the Marathon Plus was far better than it had any right to be (though he may have tested 20-inch tyres – I can’t remember).

And it was a rolldown hill test,lets not forget that the inertia in a heavier tyre will continue further than a lighter tyre.
An M+ 700x37 weighs in at a claimed 895g compared to the same size Hyper at a claimed 395g.
It's well over twice the weight! :shock:
It's watts needed to turn and keep turning the wheels that matters,which on short rides may not be as noticeable but as the human engine tires the the higher watt output required for a given resistance shows more.
The other factor is comfort,the more comfortable the rider the more watts the 'engine' will produce to the rear wheel IME.
I look on a lack of comfort as an energy stealer,anyone who's ever ridden M+'s over any distance will probably agree they're not a comfortable or easy rolling tyre.
Humans are not machines they tire,and the more energy that's used initially the less there is for later :wink:

Like you, though, I would like to see other tests backing up these results.

Me too :)

Edited for typo's
Last edited by reohn2 on 20 Aug 2014, 6:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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OnYourRight
Posts: 283
Joined: 30 Jun 2013, 8:53pm

Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by OnYourRight »

I’m not suggesting the Marathon Plus rolls easily, just more easily than might be expected from its enormous heft, thickness, and toughness. It’s definitely not a comfy tyre, though.

The Marathon Plus is used on Parisian Vélib’ bicycles (hire bikes akin to London’s Boris bikes – anyone know what tyres those use, by the way?). I’ve ridden them and they roll better than I expected, albeit worse than I’d accept on my own bike.

My own view is that the occasional puncture is well worth putting up with in exchange for comfort and speed. But I ride for pleasure mostly; I don’t commute to train stations.
Brucey
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Re: Vittoria Randonneur Hyper Tyres,heads up

Post by Brucey »

OnYourRight wrote:I’m not suggesting the Marathon Plus rolls easily, just more easily than might be expected from its enormous heft, thickness, and toughness. It’s definitely not a comfy tyre, though.

The Marathon Plus is used on Parisian Vélib’ bicycles (hire bikes akin to London’s Boris bikes – anyone know what tyres those use, by the way?). I’ve ridden them and they roll better than I expected, albeit worse than I’d accept on my own bike.

My own view is that the occasional puncture is well worth putting up with in exchange for comfort and speed. But I ride for pleasure mostly; I don’t commute to train stations.


Boris bikes use Schwalbe MPs too, apparently;

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/why-do-boris-bikes-hardly-ever-get-punctures/

cheers
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