30s Sun pre strip-down photos

[Brucey]

my uncalibrated eyeball suggests that the older model has angles in the low sixties and the newer one has steeper ones than that. If the pictures are accurate then you could measure directly. If you can post a scan (rather than a photo which might have barrel distortion) then I can have a go if you like.

Reynolds HM taper tubes are mentioned here;

http://threespeedhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/ClaudButler-Catalog-1933-UK.pdf

and here;

http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10605.1307.eml

where 1933 is stated as the launch date for Reynolds HM taper and such frames are described as 'almost unknown nowadays'.

Thinking about it I don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh, actually.

Rare indeed.

cheers

[breakwellmz]

Thanks.

The Granby is very similar-

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bi ... by-rb.html

No scanner i`m afraid.
The two pages are opposite each other so easy to compare.They state 63 degrees parallel for the obviously more`upright`of the two,and 68 degrees for the other.A`typo`i`m assuming.

[pete75]

And Resilion brakes - who says you need braze ons for cantis?

[Brucey]

And Resilion brakes - who says you need braze ons for cantis?

yeah, just imagine what you could do with a modern version of those!

That Granby is a classy machine isn't it? DO you think the SUN will look like that when it is done?

cheers

[531colin]

Chuck 'em in the bin was all I ever wanted to do with Resilion cantilevers.
They were set up so the handlebar lever had a high mechanical advantage, so the cable was short-travel, high tension, and all running in outer from lever to brake, with no easy way to lube the cable. friction losses were huge.
If you look at the OPs picture of his rear brake, you can see it has little MA, the pivot is just by the inside of the seatstay, and pivot to cable attachment is little longer than pivot to pad. ....all in the days of CTC signs at the top of steep hills advising cyclists to dismount!
Contrast this with Vee brakes, which have long travel low tension cables with little friction losses.

I don't understand "the angles" either.
They say the more "upright" frame sits the rider further forward over the BB, which is right
I suppose the most obvious explanation is the numbers are transposed.

[breakwellmz]

Hi breakwelllmz,
from memories of a book my father had when I was a kid, I think the handlebars might be Lauter Wasers, I'm sure that's not how you spell it I have dads "fixed" Hawkes in the shed, built in '38, that has a side pull brake on the left, better for a right hand signal? and a Resilion has been added to the rear, a friend has suggested that they are just too complicated, and not that effective

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... lders.html

[breakwellmz]

And Resilion brakes - who says you need braze ons for cantis?

yeah, just imagine what you could do with a modern version of those!

That Granby is a classy machine isn't it? DO you think the SUN will look like that when it is done?

cheers

I doubt whether my Sun will end up looking quite as good as that,they look remarkably similar though at a time when manufacturers were trying to make their bikes very distinctive visually.

[Brucey]

Chuck 'em in the bin was all I ever wanted to do with Resilion cantilevers.....

Cables have come on a bit since then mind; I wonder how they would work with decent ones? Also these days bikes are fitted with two brakes not just one! With just one brake of any kind I'd be dismounting at the top of steep hills, especially if it was just a rear brake.

However one thought was that you could replace all the cables etc with a neat hydraulic system (not my first choice normally). If you did it right, no part of the brake would project beyond the stays/forks. And the same frame would than accept different sized wheel rims with little difficulty. The reaction loads into the stays would be fair better contained than in conventional brakes.

cheers

[Brucey]

BTW I stumbled upon this website (AKA Menotomy Vintage Bicycles)

http://oldroads.com/smf_f/

which looks interesting, if lightly used.

The most popular section is for 'English Roadsters and Three Speeds' despite the fact that the site is a US-based one, which presumably speaks volumes about the durability and quality of these machines, if nothing else.

cheers

[cycle tramp]

Do tell me if this is getting boring

Nope not boring at all and i'd go further and say that; Actually the ctc magazine could do with less road tests and more articles regarding bicycle builds such as yours, and be better for it! Looking forward to hearing more about the build, and seeing the finished article... (and taking the thread slightly off topic, does anyone know if Brucey finished building a bike around that 26" wheeled frame which folded in half, using the seat tube as a pivot? Should we be suspecting a build with a three speed hub, drum brakes and perhaps a belt drive to keep whatever the folded bicycle has been lent against clear of chain oil?)

[Brucey]

I absolutely agree that the SUN would make a fine magazine article; it represents a very interesting experiment in frame design and construction. If this experiment can be said to have been a dead-end in terms of bicycle evolution, I'd love to know if it was because it was technically or commercially so. A well researched discussion on this point would make fascinating reading.

OT re the BiFrame build; having reinstated the mech braze on via cunning welding (which risks the frame never folding again because you are welding to the outer one of the two concentric tubes, which you cannot separate ) it seemed rude not to build it up again without a derailleur transmission. It was only after I put it all together that I realised that I could have put the braze-on in a better place.... I considered an IGH but since (in theory anyway) the bike will only pack down small enough to keep some train companies happy with the wheels out, I thought better of the IGH idea, at least until I can make one properly QR, anyway.

Anyway I threw it together in a bit of a rush (for the velomobile collection trip) with a 3x8 transmission, drops, exage QR-button brake levers, Avid shortys, old LX chainset (of'92 vintage), PD-M520s (of course), deore 9s rear mech, and friction shifters sneakily mounted on the underside of the stem nose bolt on a custom bracket. The wheels are 32 spokers, fitted with 559x1.25" slicks (skinwall 'Forte' ones I picked up in the USA a few years ago) which roll really well. I didn't get round to doing a proper job with the mudguards though. It probably all sounds a bit better than it really is; if I'm honest it is something of a bitsa.

Having said that I've done a couple of hundred miles on it thus far and in a nutshell, nothing fell off and it all works as advertised. However; it isn't as pretty as I'd like (the angles are a bit weird), the frame is both heavier and stiffer than is necessary (the whole bike weighs just over 30lbs with no mudguards and a similar build on an ally frame is nearer 26 or 27lbs IIRC). The trail is a bit low and the steering is very much affected by even a tiny error in the fold angle when straightened (there is a locating pin but there is still some lash in the unfolded position; you need to choose the final position carefully before tightening the clamps). Most times you can unfold it (rear wheel still in) and be away in about 20s but about half the time I've then had to stop and reset the fold because it isn't quite right and the steering is so poor.

I plan to fit some clever mudguards, a saddle that will accept my QD uplift, a better seat post, and to experiment with a front load a bit; I note that, with drops fitted, a small front rack would not affect the folded size in any way, and a small load near the headstock might calm the steering a bit; as it is, I can't easily ride it no hands.

I plan to do a more detailed post on this (with pics) when I've done a little more. Apols for thread hijack!

cheers

[breakwellmz]

Hijack,what hijack?

I got in touch with the marque specialist for Sun Cycles within the VCC.
Quote- "The Wasp Taper Tube, which used Granby tubes and was available from 1930 – 32"

Bits`n pieces have been soaking in jars of paint brush cleaner and/or paraffin with satisfactory results

[breakwellmz]

Another few hours in the back garden this afternoon resulted in bad and good news.

It`s had a`front ender`at some point.
Components under all the paint and crud are in surprisingly good nick and came apart without any problem.

[breakwellmz]

The Sun brought out the Sun today.

The first semi-threaded,integrated headset frame/fork/stem design?
The balls can be assembled into their races(Which are all the same)and held together as assemblies before being`dropped`into the frame.It makes assembly much easier,but more potential for`slop`i would guess.