Touring disc hubs

[531colin]

and where does this leave handbuilt wheels made by eg SJS or SPA? Do they send them out with the hubs preoperly adjusted? seems like rather important to know if u have spent a great deal of money on a so-called hand build wheel? I would want that to be done before I get my hands on it.

As I said above, if you send them out properly adjusted, they need re-adjusting after a few hundred miles. Who will do that?
If you keep Shimano hubs properly adjusted and greased, they will outlast several rims worn through by the brake blocks.
Most people don't bother to maintain their hubs, they simply throw them away when the rims are worn through, so it scarcely matters if the hubs don't last as long as they otherwise might.
The small extra amount you spend on a handbuilt compared to a machine built (with the same components) should buy you freedom from spoke failure, not freedom from hub maintenance.

[hjd10]

215lbs plus an occasional pannier load would suggest a 36h rear wheel to me rather than a 32h one.

cheers

Brucey,

Quite correct I can get a 36h rim in the same make although I'm now back to the drawing board for the hub!

Howie

a few hubs have been suggested up thread. mtb hubs are stronger but need the rear stays to be 135mm. what is your frame oln measurement?

Hi,
The frame is set for 135mm. Ok I've just ordered this front wheel:

Supernova hub infinity s dynohub
Velocity A23 rim in black
DT competition spokes (32 spokes)
Pro built Wheel
Regular $395.00 - My price: $225.00

I had originally purchased a SRAM D7 hub on its own for $57 (this was very cheap, I thought I'd buy it just to see what it was like) delivered only to find out the next day they had sold it minutes before my order came through....
I was informed of this and my money was refunded. I thought I'd E-mail the shop if they had any other hubs/wheels that might be suitable, minutes later they came back with the above wheel. It was built for a customer who then decided he didn't want it, so the shop have been using it on their shop dynohub demonstration rig (the wheel isn't constantly turning in the display!).

The shop is the store that Sheldon Brown used to work at in Newton, MA: http://harriscyclery.net/

Just the back wheel to sort now, I'll try to get hold of a Velocity A23 rim to match the front wheel. Now I've spend a bit more money than I really wanted to and therefore might be looking at those Shimano hubs next....
The SRAM X series hubs look nice although I've not seen any in a 36H. Someone here mentioned the Spin Doctor as that was on my original list to.
It doesn't matter how good the reviews you read someone always has a bad story to tell about bike parts, a friend at work is a heavy hard riding MTB DH enthusiast and he raves about Hope hubs. Someone else will then come on and say Hope hubs are are rubbish!

Any thoughts on my front wheel purchase?

Regards,

Howie

[Brucey]

front wheel seems fine to me.

Re Hope hubs; they are smooth, strong, lightweight, the freewheel is a bit noisy, and are basically excellent on MTBs. The sealing isn't perfect at the freehub to body joint but it is better than many others and rarely causes a major problem.

However they do have a significant weakness for road use; when coated in winter road salt on a regular basis, they can crack, independent of age or mileage. Hope have claimed that they have had bad batches of raw material (which I'm sure has made it a lot worse at times) but this has been going on for years; I have a box full of broken ones.

Really IMHO they should use a different material for those hubs which are to be used on our winter roads; the grade they use can suffer SCC and isn't (say) recommended for marine applications because of this. The salt content of the water on a drying bike after a winter ride can vastly exceed that of sea water, and that I suspect is often why it happens. Plain old offroad mud is much less corrosive, and tends to get washed off; by contrast I've ridden a road bike through a single puddle (on an otherwise dry winter ride) and the droplets are so salty they have started to corrode bare polished aluminium parts within a day if they are not washed off.

In all fairness, if it a crack does occur, Hope are pretty good about this as a warranty item (sometimes out of warranty too) but it still leaves you with a wheel to rebuild. Older hubs are scrap when they break because they don't stock older designs of flanges.

cheers

[hjd10]

I eventually got a 36 hole Halo Spin Doctor rear hub and sourced a Velocity A23 rim for my rear wheel build.
Here is the bike nearly complete.






Regards,

[freebooter]

well it was once also a fact that the world was flat.

Yebbut most people didn't know any different then,the ones that did or suspected otherwise, were so frightened of what the Church might do to them if they said otherwise,they kept quiet until a brave soul decided to speak out.

Nonsense, people in Europe had known the earth was spherical since the Greeks. Other cultures believed in a flat earth - the Chinese for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

[reohn2]

Nonsense, people in Europe had known the earth was spherical since the Greeks. Other cultures believed in a flat earth - the Chinese for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

I stand corrected.
But thanks for taking it out of context,we were discussing if Shimano hubs are shipped with bearings adjusted too tight,I offered a possible reason why.

[Brucey]

I eventually got a 36 hole Halo Spin Doctor rear hub and sourced a Velocity A23 rim for my rear wheel build.
Here is the bike nearly complete.






Regards,

nice, proper mudguards too, and everything.

Do you need mudguards where you are? I thought you were having a drought or something? The last time I flew over the big reservoirs like lake Mead they were all half-empty and had been for nearly a decade...

cheers

[hjd10]

I eventually got a 36 hole Halo Spin Doctor rear hub and sourced a Velocity A23 rim for my rear wheel build.
Here is the bike nearly complete.






Regards,

nice, proper mudguards too, and everything.

Do you need mudguards where you are? I thought you were having a drought or something? The last time I flew over the big reservoirs like lake Mead they were all half-empty and had been for nearly a decade...

cheers

Hi Brucie,
I've just updated my profile as I've recently returned from the States. Lake Mead is getting lower every year!
I'm now commuting 20 miles each way a few times a week, hence the full mudguards. I've joined the RSF and will be occasionaly riding with South Lakes group.
Regards

[hjd10]

Quick update and question, I'm having trouble with my rear wheel thats the Spin Doctor hub and Velocity rim (wheel built in the States). From new I thought that the spoke tension wasn't brilliant and in only a few hundred miles I've not been able to keep the wheel true. I've since had the wheel rebuilt and although the spoke tension is much better it still seems to be going out of true. I'm doing a good few miles a week riding down part of the old Roman road bridleway from Cranwell to Lincoln, the wheels on my bike should be more than suitable for this journey.
I'm a Mountain biker also and I've never had any issues with wheels in the past, could the issue be the spokes as they were originally cut to size and threaded?

Any Thoughts?

I'm in the Lincolnshire area if anyone can help I'd be happy let someone have a look at the wheel!

Regards,

[Brucey]

well there are hundreds of ways that a wheel can go wrong but if it is losing tension there are only a few ways that this can happen

-the hub or rim are wearing/moving
- the spokes are deforming (e.g. at the elbow end because they are the wrong elbow length for the hub)
- the nipples are unscrewing.

The last of these can be because the NDS tension isn't tight enough or that the wheel has been built with PG spokes instead of DB ones on the NDS.

If you use paint blobs on the nipples you will see if they are unscrewing, and will know to react accordingly (e.g. use Loctite on them)

cheers

[MikeF]

could the issue be the spokes as they were originally cut to size and threaded?

Any Thoughts?

Could they be cut too long or without a long enough threaded part? This would mean the threads would "bottom out" in the nipple before the spokes are tight enough. Have you tried tightening a nipple on each side to test? If you count how much you turn, you can put it back to where it was. If all you can do is twist the spoke ie not turn the nipple on the thread, then spokes are too long/thread too short which might explain why the spokes seem loose.

[MikeF]

The only thing "wrong" with Deore hubs is they are supplied with the cones set too tight. Back off the cones so there is a bit of "play" which disappears when the Q/R is done up, and after a few hundred miles they will be as smooth as silk.
It used to be easy to drill them for greasing, but I think Shimano complicated it a bit...http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34933&start=15
Have a weekend away with the cost saving over boutique hubs!

So Shimano dont know how to ship their hubs? and that by choice? surly they must have a reason? why they should not be as loose as u wish? I have read the thing about loose until tightened & dont really know what to think.

My experience of Shimano hubs is very limited compared with others on this forum, but all the hubs I have had, with the possible exception of one, have been too tight - some noticeably so.
I don't think you would (or should) expect any hub to be adjusted properly, as in my view this would be part regarded as part of a set up procedure, like setting up brakes for example.

[Brucey]

shimano actually have an impossible task because the hub adjustment is also affected by the spoke tension loadings. This means that once a hub is built into a wheel the optimum adjustment is slightly different.

cheers

[keithb]

To go back to the debate about cartridge vs cup and cone bearings, one one the big plusses with cartridge bearings is the fit and forget nature. I don't have the time, tools, knowledge or inclination to regularly strip, clean, regrease and reassemble cup and cone hubs, with every service an opportunity to ruin the hub through incorrect adjustment, and every missed service a chance to ruin the hub through bearing and cup wear.

At least with a cartridge bearing you can't get them wrong, you only need the most rudimentary of tools and if they do totally die, you only throw away a couple of bearings, rather than a whole hub. And given the time or cost of rebuilding a wheel, realistically it's both cheaper and more convenient to just buy a whole wheel than replace the hub.

As a disc rim will, in theory, never year out, the only point of year on a wheel is the bearings, so safeguarding the wheel with cheap, disposable cartridge bearings would be my choice....

Apologies for any typos, this was written on my phone!

[Brucey]

At least with a cartridge bearing you can't get them wrong.....

yes you can.... and indeed most people do. Go read about how the fits should be controlled when fitting cartridge bearings and then ask yourself how often that actually happens.

And given the time or cost of rebuilding a wheel, realistically it's both cheaper and more convenient to just buy a whole wheel than replace the hub....

it rather depends on who builds your wheels. Cheap wheels are cheap for a reason. 99/100 cup and cone hubs with bearing damage have clearly had the damage caused by bad maintenance or water ingress. Both are easily avoided. I think I have only half a dozen times actually ruined the cups in a cup and cone hub, and that was by abusing parts with much higher loads than they were designed for. And then I fitted new cups. So the idea that you might need to change a cup and cone hub out (rather than just fit new bearing parts if they are worn) is (given even a very low level of skill/maintenance, and starting level of hub quality) not that likely. I suspect that for many riders, breaking a frame is more likely than wrecking hub bearings that badly.

As a disc rim will, in theory, never year out...

hmmm.. whose theory is that???? No, they get bent, they corrode, they fatigue, they crack, the spokes pull out of them... all the usual things. I've been dealing with a lot of trashed wheels recently (as part of a spoke life investigation) and only about a third of all the broken rims are worn out. Most of them get bent and about as many (box section) rims crack etc as wear out on the braking surface.

Rear disc wheels with 32 spokes (and even vaguely lightweight pretensions) seem to have an especially unhealthy appetite for rims; failures are commonplace.

cheers