Battery versus Dynamo

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The Mechanic
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by The Mechanic »

Mick F wrote:I agree.
Personally - if money was no object - I'd get a SonDelux hub dynamo and a decent front light with a USB take-off.
Cost would be £250ish for a wheel and £150ish for the lamp - say £400.

However, unless one uses a dynohub frequently, it's a waste of money and hardware. Would it not be more cost effective to have a battery light if it's only used every now and again - despite the inconvenience of battery life?
Hope Vision 1 is £80odd plus batteries - say £100.


Mick; In you particular case for your charity ride, I fully agree. I have a dynamo set up (as you might have guessed). However, the latest B&M light, with the USB take off might a few quid to far. It seems like a lot of money just to be able to charge your phone. Mind you, I have recently acquired a Garmin Edge 800 so might need to charge that on longer rides in the future. Mmmmm? Maybee a note to Santa is in order. :)
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Trigger
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by Trigger »

philg wrote:
squeaker wrote:
stewartpratt wrote:Also my personal experience of rechargeable AAs and their chargers is that they're woefully unreliable - if I ever got anything like the claimed capacity when new then I certainly never did after a number of uses. I gave up with them a few years ago and have never used them since; maybe they've improved.
IME rechargeable AAs have improved: I particularly like the high output Eneloop XX.
But as you say, YMMV :wink:

They have improved, but are sidelined (IMHO) by rechargeable Lithium cells, which is why I'm looking forward to getting my hands on This

The advantages for me are swappable battery packs but with individual cells. which will allow better charging control, and cheaper replacement when a cell expires. Not a great problem IME, 1 dead 18650 cell in about 4 years; and that's with cheapy Chinese supplier


£80 light that requires two £12.50 batteries, plus it's one of those where you have to find somewhere to stash the separate battery pack. Sounds like too much faff and expense to me.
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philg
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by philg »

Trigger wrote:£80 light that requires two £12.50 batteries, plus it's one of those where you have to find somewhere to stash the separate battery pack. Sounds like too much faff and expense to me.

Less faff than swapping over lights & a dyno-wheel between bikes, and certainly less expense - especially as I'd need 2 dyno wheels (700c & 26")!

Lights are currently transferring on a daily basis between normal commuter bike (fixed); geared bike with winter Marathons for the ice days and the MTB for the snowy days, or just for the hell of it :wink:
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stewartpratt
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by stewartpratt »

Trigger wrote:£80 light that requires two £12.50 batteries, plus it's one of those where you have to find somewhere to stash the separate battery pack. Sounds like too much faff and expense to me.


And two hours' runtime on the usable brightness, four at the marginal one. Hard to get excited about that, especially if you're riding for 24 hours :)

Mick F wrote:Personally - if money was no object - I'd get a SonDelux hub dynamo and a decent front light with a USB take-off. Cost would be £250ish for a wheel and £150ish for the lamp - say £400. However, unless one uses a dynohub frequently, it's a waste of money and hardware.


You're making a rather partisan argument. You can't price up a dynamo rig on a "money no object" basis and then say it's a waste of money. Of course £400 looks a lot -- you've picked pretty much the most expensive kit in town because money's no object, and then pitched it against a relatively cheap battery light.

You don't need a SON, a top-end Shimano is a perfectly decent hub for £50. A Luxos would be nice, but you're paying the extra £90 over the Cyo for a main beam and a USB port. The £50 Cyo is just dandy. And I've already offered you the USB bit for free :) So add spokes at £10 and you have your dynamo system for £110. Which is practically the same as your Hope light (did that price include a charger?).
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Mick F
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by Mick F »

The Mechanic wrote: .......... the latest B&M light, with the USB take off might a few quid to far. It seems like a lot of money just to be able to charge your phone. Mind you, I have recently acquired a Garmin Edge 800 so might need to charge that on longer rides in the future. Mmmmm? Maybee a note to Santa is in order. :)
I would buy one of these to charge a Garmin and/or phone. Looks nicely designed and cheap enough.
http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/ ... tery-pack/
Stuff it in your saddlebag and run the lead to the Garmin along the top tube.


stewartpratt wrote:You're making a rather partisan argument. You can't price up a dynamo rig on a "money no object" basis and then say it's a waste of money.
OK.
I was making a point, that's all.

The Hope light is a top-end product and so is the SonDelux.
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philg
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by philg »

stewartpratt wrote:And two hours' runtime on the usable brightness, four at the marginal one. Hard to get excited about that, especially if you're riding for 24 hours :)

That's a bit disingenuous! - even on what you call marginal setting, I'll bet you'll still get more useable light from the BT20 than any dynamo light.
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willem jongman
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by willem jongman »

I am not sure a Garmin runs off a usb supply. Anyway, as I indicated earlier, something like 100-110 pounds buys you a good Shimano LX generator hub and a B&M Cyo or a Philips Saferide 60. Resistance and longevity will be a bit worse than with a SON hub, but not that much.
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andrew_s
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by andrew_s »

stewartpratt wrote:You're making a rather partisan argument. You can't price up a dynamo rig on a "money no object" basis and then say it's a waste of money. Of course £400 looks a lot -- you've picked pretty much the most expensive kit in town because money's no object, and then pitched it against a relatively cheap battery light.

Yes, indeed.
Instead, compare against a "money no object" battery light, such as a Lupine Betty (or a B+M Big Bang if you don't like blinding motorists).
niggle
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by niggle »

philg that does look a very interesting light, all the features of the Magicshine MJ818e but promising a better beam pattern.
stewartpratt
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by stewartpratt »

Mick F wrote:The Hope light is a top-end product and so is the SonDelux.


It's a little subjective, but I disagree: the Vision 1 seems fairly low rent by battery light standards. The fact that it's the cheapest model in Hope's range is a hint :)

philg wrote:That's a bit disingenuous! - even on what you call marginal setting, I'll bet you'll still get more useable light from the BT20 than any dynamo light.


Ah, I confess I'd assumed it was a bog standard symmetrical beam, but on closer inspection I see it's a bit of a hybrid beam. Would be interesting to see one -- if it is a good shape then I expect the medium setting would be comparable with a Cyo or Saferide.

willem jongman wrote:I am not sure a Garmin runs off a usb supply


The ones I've had do.
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philg
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by philg »

stewartpratt wrote:Ah, I confess I'd assumed it was a bog standard symmetrical beam, but on closer inspection I see it's a bit of a hybrid beam. Would be interesting to see one -- if it is a good shape then I expect the medium setting would be comparable with a Cyo or Saferide.

Yes, the BT20 is a proper bike light but with the power to actually see by when needed (e.g. fast downhill on wet tarmac)

If you have a look at the Light Test I reckon the BT20 on max is comparable in output with the Magicshine, but effectively brighter due to the shaped lenses.

I also reckon even on medium output it will outshine the Supernova E3 (do a side by side comparison on the website), hence my comment

Of course £400 looks a lot -- you've picked pretty much the most expensive kit in town because money's no object, and then pitched it against a relatively cheap battery light.

But a cheap (£20) battery light is all you need to blind everyone! - paying more is not necessary.

And Garmin Oregon can certainly be powered from the USB port
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stewartpratt
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by stewartpratt »

philg wrote:But a cheap (£20) battery light is all you need to blind everyone! - paying more is not necessary.


That's certainly a part of the market where battery lights win: bargain basement photon bazookas.

You have to live with pot-luck build quality (including some interesting reports of exploding/igniting batteries and chargers) and - as you say - blinding everyone, which IME normally results in being blinded back, but they do a job at a silly price.

For occasional use they make a lot of sense -- I'm contemplating buying one (maybe not a £20 one) for the occasional off-road night ride -- but I think less so for more frequent (or long-distance) road use. I still haven't quite worked out exactly what Mick's criteria are :)
willem jongman
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by willem jongman »

I don't think blinding fellow road users is progress (or legal).
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Mick F
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by Mick F »

willem jongman wrote:I am not sure a Garmin runs off a usb supply.
Mine does.
So long as the USB doesn't come from a computer, it's absolutely fine. The backlight comes on and it recognises the external power supply.
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squeaker
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Re: Battery versus Dynamo

Post by squeaker »

philg wrote:Yes, the BT20 is a proper bike light but with the power to actually see by when needed (e.g. fast downhill on wet tarmac)
Proper? With a rubber o-ring attachment? :roll:
Maybe designed for use on a bicycle for rough stuff use...., which is what the beam shape suggests too, with all that close up light for low speed maneuvering.
IMHO, if you're going to regularly remove the light (which I presume is why it uses a rubber band - or is it to allow it to be knocked with less likelihood of damage?) and it's that bright, then I'd have expected a mount that aligns the light to a repeatable setting.
YMMV, of course!
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