Repairing a Brooks saddle

[dg]

Today both rails of my Brooks Professional saddle broke, at the rear of the seat clamp.
The saddle is 30 years old, but the leather is in very good condition, as I only do a few hundred miles a year. I have had the rails replaced before, when they broke about 8 years ago, and I'm disappointed that they've gone again so soon.

Having looked on the web, I'm thinking of replacing the rails and rivets myself. I'd appreciate any thoughts on how easy this would be. I can buy new rails and rivets from http://www.bicycleworkshop.co.uk

Some questions are:
1. What would be the best rivet setting tool to get?
2. It appears that "chrome rails are weaker than Brooks black ones". Can I get the black rails anywhere?
3. Is it possible to fit the larger rivets to the Professional? (Purely because I prefer the look.)
4. Is it possible to buy better/cheaper copper rivets than the Brooks ones at one pound each?
5. Anything I've overlooked?

Any advice would be gratefully received.

[531colin]

I did this a couple of years ago.................



Bought rivets & frame from Brooks, Frame is black (B17N)
It never occurred to me to buy a tool, I just drilled a dent in the end of a bit of steel rod, held the rod in the vise, and hammered the rivet heads.
Probably couldn't do the front that way, even if I wanted to,

Brooks rivet....

[Gearoidmuar]

Send it to Brooks with a nice letter and ask them for black rails and I'm sure they'll oblige. I've had three saddles fixed by them down the years and so has my friend Mick.

[Brucey]

oh dear....

1) ideally you need to have a hollow post that you can work against, so that you can shape the head of the rivet before flaring the back. You also need a couple of punches to use depending on what rivets you are using and whether you are setting them onto a very curved part of the cantle plate or not.

2) the chromed rails can be slightly more brittle due to the plating process. As above, you can use black rails if you want, but yours may not have broken because of the chrome.

3) Yes.

4) Better, yes, cheaper, not much. BTW the rivet holds the leather on the shank and under the head. You can vary both and potentially improve the job.

5) It may be of interest to see how your saddle failed; any pics?

As suggested above you might get on OK with a return to Brooks but it is possible they won't help you on a saddle of this age.

NB. I have a quantity of Copper rivets with a flat (not countersunk) head 12mm dia, and a 6.2mm shank. I have posted pictures of saddles fitted with these rivets before.http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62103&p=529800&hilit=rivet#p529800 The frame holes will need to be opened slightly in most cases, and the rivet can be cut to the exact right length for the job. PM me if you would like some.

I would suggest that a frame/cantle plate with bag loops might be a good idea.

cheers

[MikewsMITH2]

I have a black frame if you want it. I did this job a year or two ago, but the 50 year old cover didnt survive the transplant too well and split a few weeks later. Yours for the cost of the postage.
Mike

[WrightsW5]

Has anyone tried using split rivets (DIY), I had an Indian Brooks with split rivets, no problem with them.

[WrightsW5]

Also,
I wanted to ask Brucey this, as you've done rivetting etc. I have a B17 Narrow which is a piece of junk at the moment as the nose is crooked, viewed from underneath it badly bends to the right. I'm wondering if it was rivetted on not lined up correctly at the factory and this caused it? I'd like to put a new leather top on - but don't want to waste my time if it will end up the same. Thanks.

[MikewsMITH2]

Brucey the riveting on the nose is difficult.I assume they have a specially shaped anvil or some such at the factory. I contrived various bits of metal to rivet against. If the nose is twisted, either the holes in leather are punched incorrectly or the drillings in the nose piece. If the latter then a new nose piece might fix it.

[Brucey]

re the nose and nose riveting:

A big nose tilt can indicate that the nose has spread and isn't sitting on the shackle properly. Most Brooks shackles have shoulders on them to support the nose. Typically a spread nose sits on one shackle shoulder and not the other, and thus leans to one side.

Nose spreading is also the key to riveting the nose without needing a cranked anvil/punch arrangement; normally I get the leather vs metalwork alignment correct (e.g. drilling for larger rivet shanks), then spread the nose, then do the riveting, then close the nose up again. I find you don't need a large spread to get the tools in for a straight-ish hit.

cheers

[WrightsW5]

When I got the saddle the nosepiece was spread, I used a clamp to squeeze it back and reassembled the parts, but when I put tension on with the adjuster the more tension, the more it started to bend again, and spread the nosepiece.

[Brucey]

sometimes the shackle has been made with a worn die or the shoulders are damaged; in this case closing the nose up so that the shackle needs to be forced in can work. Also filing the shoulders to give larger shoulders that are inward-sloping can help too.

cheers

[WrightsW5]

Yes, I thought about that, making them more defined, I'll try that if I re-cover it.

After further looking it seems it wasn't lined up correctly at the rear before riveting, so the front could only ever have been fitted wrongly.

[MikewsMITH2]

Here is one I did earlier:

Before:



and after



Brooks rivets

[niggle]

On a slight tangent, my B17N has always been a bit prone to getting saggy and has needed repeated tensioning, as otherwise eventually I find I am sitting on the rails. Last time I did this I checked how much of the adjustment had been used up, wondering how much adjustment there was left: about four turns of thread on the tension bolt showing ahead of the adjustment nut. I noticed it was getting a bit saggy again today and had a look underneath: no (=zero) turns of the thread showing... So how can I stop the tension bolt nut from backing off?

[MikewsMITH2]

On a slight tangent, my B17N has always been a bit prone to getting saggy and has needed repeated tensioning, as otherwise eventually I find I am sitting on the rails. Last time I did this I checked how much of the adjustment had been used up, wondering how much adjustment there was left: about four turns of thread on the tension bolt showing ahead of the adjustment nut. I noticed it was getting a bit saggy again today and had a look underneath: no (=zero) turns of the thread showing... So how can I stop the tension bolt nut from backing off?

Have you been regularly rubbing Proofide or other substance into your saddle? If so the stop it!