Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

[BeltDriven]

Hello All

I just wanted to say thanks.
I got a new Avanti Inc 3 and the gears were slipping (mostly 9 and 10), even though the yellow index marks showed it was adjusted correctly.
I didn't really feel inclined to take it back and wait while it was fixed under warranty.
After reading through this forum, I decided to try moving the index marks one way or the other and it worked.
It looks like its the opposite of Meshuga who posted earlier.
This is where my hub is set now and it's not slipping:

[rofan]

There are two videos on youtube about cable pull with a Alfine 11 Shifter SL-S700

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTaeBAu5SSo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0uiCXiP1NY

[rfryer]

There are two videos on youtube about cable pull with a Alfine 11 Shifter SL-S700

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTaeBAu5SSo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0uiCXiP1NY

For the record, here are the cable pulls in each gear, from the second of the two clips.

Code: Select all

11  -0.03 - 0
10  5.6 - 5.73
 9  10.83 - 11.01
 8  15.61 - 15.81
 7  20.85 - 20.95
 6  27.31 - 27.38
 5  32.05 - 32.13
 4  36.06 - 37.32
 3  42.03 - 42.08
 2  47.23 - 47.26
 1  52.45 - 52.47

[rofan]

the cable pull per click for ShifterNo1, which already was in use and still is . (Shifter No3 is "new". )
For No1 up and down and the second run is very similar.

ShiftNo1
delta
1-2 5,2
2-3 5,18
3-4 4,76
4-5 5,19
5-6 4,74
6-7 6,44
7-8 5,15
8-9 4,79
9-10 5,28
10-11 5,73

[PAIN IN HUB]

I have a Day ONE with the 8 speed hub,3 workshops later still having problems with cable tension ,going up is fine, down it just zips to first. All set up to spec.
Any one any where a clue!, My shifter is built into a hood type brake lever on drop handle bars

[Brucey]

which shifter do you have?

If you have a trigger shifter then it is probably just a bit sticky inside, and may need a drop of spray lube to free it up. [They do eventually wear out and they can break inside, but neither is very likely].

If you have a revoshifter then it could be knackered, in which case just get a new one, they are dirt cheap.


cheers

[jb]

Alfine 11 owners might find my following findings interesting especially regarding some faults that have been reported further back in the thread.

The other day I was climbing a steep hill in bottom gear, when I got to the top and tried to change down it went into the wrong gear or would not change at all. I dismounted and started looking and found the selector arm to be stiff on part of its travel. After loosening the wheel it became loose again and I tightened it up and carried on. All was well until I hit the next hill and I dropped down to low. It became stiff again and gears were not selected in their proper order.
I decided to strip it down for a look.

All was well until I came across one half of this almost hidden in an alcove:

Spring clip

I looked around but could not find where it had come from and thought it may have broken off the end of the clutch spring which was the same cross section, so against my better judgement rebuilt it thinking it could have been causing the stiffness by getting caught in the mechanism and maybe it had always been there hidden. Not surprisingly down the road at the next hill the same thing happened again (hoping never works)

The only place left to look was the complicated spring mechanism so I rather reluctantly dismantled it and low & behold the other half appeared just inside the fixed sun gear:

Spring clip supposed to be holding sun gear inplace

So now I have the whole hub stripped to its bear bones:

Gear change mechanism stripped, will it ever ride again?

So, what the problem was, & what the problem could be for a lot of failures is this clip breaking which causes the sun gear to be pushed forwards because its helical and there is side thrust. This in turn causes slight binding of the gear change mechanism, however a bit of back peddling can re-seat it & loosen it off again.

Axle with spring clip groove

I'm a bit disappointed now because this is
a) looking like a weak spot in this hub gear which was up to now proving quite robust
b) The part is almost certainly unobtainable without buying the whole axle mechanism (haven't looked into the cost yet). I am reluctant do do this if this is going to happen in another 5000 miles or the next 1:4 climb

I could attempt to make one but its taking a lot of force and needs to be a very particular shape. There's probably a huge box full of them sat in Shimanos factory and my otherwise undamaged hub gear is grounded without one. This seems to be an Achilles heal of this box and makes it now an uncertainty for long tours, although I could have ridden it for a while as it was.

Hope this helps others with identifying Alfine hub problems.

[Brucey]

oh blimey.

I'm a bit fuzzy on where this spring goes or what it does exactly.... but could it be replaced with a snap ring?

cheers

[jb]

Just changed one of the photo's - wrong one.

... but could it be replaced with a snap ring?

Thats the problem it can't it does not go fully round the axle groove because the changer mechanism has to operate in that part. it has specially formed hooks to go into the holes at the end of the grooves.... not a brilliant idea IMO

Another view of sun gear on the shaft from the other side, selector arm is protruding through the slot

Sun gear on axle with broken retaining clip shown

[Brucey]

so about 90 and a bit degrees of arc is 'open' then?

could one of these 'constant section retaining rings'




or one of these



perhaps be modified to do the job?

I'm assuming the bent ends on the original clip (at least in part) ensure that the gap in the ring is always in the right place...? If so the 'E' clip has a fair bit of meat (in the right place) to go at.

BTW if there is a static thrust on this ring then replacing it shouldn't be too difficult but if it is making a sliding contact when under load it may be a good idea to think of a further modification and a suitable material for a proper thrust washer.

cheers

[rofan]

...it does not go fully round the axle groove because the changer mechanism has to operate in that part. it has specially formed hooks to go into the holes at the end of the grooves.... not a brilliant idea IMO

Maybe the clip from a N8/A8 fits, it looks very similar.(It is easier/cheaper to get a N8 as spare part)

(clip is also broken in the pic)

[jb]

Its 0.75 thk. I could maybe turn a disc to fit bored out to fit the slot on its small dia. then file some slots in. It would push in turn 90 deg. & I could center pop it to keep its position. Once there is pressure on it it should never move. There is room to make it slightly thicker on the outer edge to compensate for the softer material.

rofan
They may well have the same clip. They are straight cut gears on the N8 and would give no side thrust so would be OK but I still don't think they would sell it separate from the whole axle assembly.

[rofan]

..don't think they would sell it separate from the whole axle assembly.

a broken N8 at ebay. Its cheaper than an axle unit at about 55 GBP

FYI: The clip in the pic is about 0.8 thk, diameter about 15mm

EDIT: not 15mm but 21mm is the outer diameter

[jb]

Thanks for that.
I'll have a ponder and see what's about at work first.

[Brucey]

I have a Day ONE with the 8 speed hub,3 workshops later still having problems with cable tension ,going up is fine, down it just zips to first. All set up to spec.
Any one any where a clue!, My shifter is built into a hood type brake lever on drop handle bars

it sounds like you have a 'Versa' shifter there. These can go sticky just like shimano ones, but total failure with these units is not unknown either.

cheers