Legal requirement for pedal reflectors - with SPD's???

[pmjt]

Having been out later than for a long time yesterday, I decided I really should check whether I'm fully legal with lights and reflectors.

One thing that worried me, while reading the excellent advice here (http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4071) it states that:


"Pedal Reflectors
Four are required, coloured amber and marked BS6102/2 (or equivalent), positioned so that one is plainly visible to the front and another to the rear of each pedal."

I've used SPD's for years (Shimano PD-M540) where there just isn't room for reflectors. Does anyone know the legal impact of this and more importantly, any suggestions for dark evenings?

Thanks in advance

[snibgo]

Legally, you can be done for not having pedal reflectors at night. I've never heard of this happening.

When I'm concerned about my visibility, I use retro-reflective ankle bands.

[meic]

You can buy a platform that clips into the 540s making them into a single sided pedal with the reflectors in place.

I dont know where you can get them though.

Worth installing for the winter months or commuting.

[Mick F]

When I'm concerned about my visibility, I use retro-reflective ankle bands.

+1

[[XAP]Bob]

Or there are single sided pedals which you could use.

I used to use ankle "slap" reflectors - but since I'm now on a 'bent most of the time I have to ignore that requirement.
I'd challenge it in court as failing to account for:
- Non DF bikes
- Trailers
- Panniers
- Heels
- Cleats


I do have some bits and bobs to think about putting together active "pedal lights" for the rear of my mudguards...

[Ayesha]

Most shoes these days have reflective panels on the heels.

I've got single sided SPDs and the absence of pedal reflectors hasn't worried me in the slightest. Even when a police car is following me at night... The police are OK with a flashing rear 3 LED lamp and a reflector on the seat tube.

IMHO, The police are pleased to see bikes with just one rear lamp. At least the bike has a lamp.

My Raleigh 20 has a teenie weenie Sturmey 1 1/4" diametre dynohub powered rear lamp. It has a 1 1/4" circular reflector on the rear mudguard. Apparently, the lamp and reflector are OE for the year of manufacture so the lamp and reflector are legal.

IT HAS its original rubber pedals. NO reflectors. It was not a requirement in the year of manufacture, so I'm legal there as well.

The bike is 'Vintage' so no new stuff will get onto this bike.

As for my other newer bikes, The pedals with reflectors in them are still wrapped in their polythene bags 'as delivered'.

[thirdcrank]

pmjt

A thread or five on this topic are started every autumn, if not before, or after. Pedal reflectors for night riding were made compulsory just as clipless pedals were being introduced on the type of bike which keen riders tend to use.

You'll probably find that everything is repeated from previous threads about it being stupid, nobody bothers with it (least of all the police) and the theoretical availabilty of compliant reflectors for clipless pedals that nobody seems to stock.

If you are worried, none of this will help, of course, but that's how it is.

[old_man]

Shimano M 324 pedals take reflectors.

Down side is that they are only single sided.

They are pretty widely available, for example

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=5937 (Pedal)
&
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=41306 (Reflector).

When I'm using the tin rain coat at night, I find pedal reflectors on other peoples' bikes make them much easier to see, so I'd highly recommend them.

[byegad]

It really needs a new law. I ride recumbents and even if fitted at a corrected angle to ensure they could be seen the pedal reflectors would only be visible to the front when my fairing was not fitted! Fitted front and rear on a pedal would equate to sky and road on a 'bent.

[thirdcrank]

It really needs a new law. ....

Don't hold your breath. At the time of the flashing lights consultation (when some of the BS standard thing went out with the bathwater) at least two submissions included a suggestion that the pedal reflector requirement should be rescinded (ie CJ's official CTC submission and mine - did anybody else submit anything, I wonder? ) Anyway, that wasn't one of the questions posed in the document and they slung a deaf 'un. The way our system works, there is nothing to trigger such a change.

[Tigerbiten]

It really needs a new law. I ride recumbents and even if fitted at a corrected angle to ensure they could be seen the pedal reflectors would only be visible to the front when my fairing was not fitted! Fitted front and rear on a pedal would equate to sky and road on a 'bent.

+1
Another bent rider here.

[pmjt]

Thanks for all the very valuable responses - and apologies for bringing this up again - I'm new here

I do like the suggestion of reflective clips - my SPD shoes have reflective strips on the back but not the front so this will help.

Agree about the terrible lack of rider illumination generally - I see it far too often where I live. At least I've a five LED rear on the seat tube and a three LED on the back of the top bag on my panny rack.

Think I might invest in a decent front light though.......

I saw these and thought they looked a very good idea - anyone with any experience of them?

http://www.fibreflare.com/

[CJ]

A thread or five on this topic are started every autumn, if not before, or after. <SNIP> You'll probably find that everything is repeated from previous threads about it being stupid, nobody bothers with it (least of all the police) and the theoretical availabilty of compliant reflectors for clipless pedals that nobody seems to stock.

Here's something new.

Occasionally, one of our number takes a step beyond ineffectual grumbling to his mates on fora like this and writes a letter to his MP, demanding that this law be reformed, so that those doing their level best to comply with it's spirit are not needlessly criminalised. Here's the brush-off they get from Under Secretary of State for Transport, Mike Penning:

There are no exemptions from the fitment of pedal reflectors. Some clip pedals (sic) provide the option to fit reflectors and cyclists may wish to encourage manufacturers to offer this option more often. It is possible that enforcement agencies would look kindly on someone who uses reflective ankle bands to try and comply in principle however it would ultimately be for a court of law to give a definitive view on the acceptability of this.

The bit about cyclists encouraging manufacturers really takes the biscuit. It has been illegal in UK to sell a new bike without pedal reflectors since 1983. If 28 years’ lost original equipment sales are not enough encouragement for foreign pedal manufacturers, what can UK cyclists do?

Don't write here, write to your MP. Quote Mike Penning's arrogant dismissal and don't forget to remind them that Britain no longer calls the shots in the world cycle market.

[thirdcrank]

pmjt

Sorry if it came across as a dig at you - my point about it not helping if you were worried was meant to make it clear it wasn't. Cycling legally should be simple, not a minefield. For donkeys years, a lack of lights at night was one of the few ways a bike might break the law. We weren't helped in those days by bike lamps being universally rubbish. British Standards were set (and set in stone at that) just at the beginning of a period of real advances in bike stuff especially lights and pedals.

There's a lot of irritation, anger even, over this topic but it's not directed at you.

PS CJ's post just tends to confirm what I'm saying about nothing to trigger a change,

[pmjt]

Wow - I had no idea this was such a minefield and brings so much emotion. It does appear that in this case, yet again, the idiom that "the law is an ass" is very true.

My search into the 'right' lights came from being caught yesterday - the rain came in much earlier than I had bargained on and with it the light faded. This got me thinking "am I correctly lit?" which prompted the searching. I had no idea there were legal rulings on the requirements beyond a single front and rear light. I also had no idea that flashing lights were now legal (you can tell I'm a recent born again cyclist!).

The problem I have with all of this is that the number of cyclists who ride with SPD / Look / Time pedals must be quite considerable. However if the *law* says you should have four reflectors, and you did not, and a third party (car driver etc.) *claimed* that a hypothetical accident happened because you were not displaying four pedal reflectors (yes, thin ice but that's what barristers deal with!), you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

This got me to thinking that, in this situation, in law the concept of 'reasonableness' would comes - this is defined (as I understand it) where: would a reasonable jury of twelve good men and women, taken from the street with no specialist knowledge of the subject, consider it "reasonable" that I didn't have pedal reflectors - probably not. My thinking then continued to "what *would* be considered reasonable?" - and my thinking is that reflective clips, lights on the seat stays in addition to the main lights, would be considered to be equal or better than four reflectors on the pedals by reasonable non experts in the field.

Not sure if any of the above makes sense - but I had an hour in the pouring rain and dark to mull it over, as you do