Stem with over 40 degree rise?

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alicej
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Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by alicej »

Ideally I'd like my handlebars just a little bit closer to me. My threadless steerer is a common 1 1/8" size, and I'm curently using an adjustable stem which goes up to a 40 degree rise and is 90cm long. Why can't I find a stem with a 50 degree rise? Doesn't have to be adjustable, just very steep - does this stem exist? Or if not then why has no one invented it?

I know about those steerer extension things but they seem so clumsy/bulky/heavy, I just wonder why I can't find much above 35 degrees and nothing at all over 40 degrees. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would buy one, especially as indicated by the fact that someone did go to the trouble of inventing the steerer extension thing.

Has anyone ever seen one?
tooley92
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by tooley92 »

Remember folks 'A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!'
rualexander
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by rualexander »

A stem with 50 degrees of rise or more would result in a real angle (taking head tube angle into account) of around 67 degrees which would be so steep as to mean that your handlebars would be so close to the steering axis as to make the handling very 'lively'. To overcome this, the length of the stem would have to be overly long and perhaps compromising safety due to bending moment stresses.
Have a look at this stem comparison site and put in some different lengths and angles and you will see the different effects.
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531colin
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by 531colin »

Have you thought about trying a different shape handlebar, one that sweeps back a bit? Gets the bars closer, and your wrists at an angle some people find more comfortable.
alicej
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by alicej »

Thanks everyone, this forum and the people on it are wonderful!

The seller of this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0573535921 says that it can be set at an angle greater than 40 degrees although this is past the markings on it i.e. it's not actually designed to be used like that. Would it be advisable to do that?

tooley92 - awesome, how'd you find those so quick?! Their adjustable one says it adjusts "through 60 degrees", although it doesn't say which 60 degrees (i.e. does it start at -10 or -20 giving a max of +40 or +50?) so I've sent an email to ask them. Love the comparison tool, that's helping a lot to visualise these strange measurements that all depend on all the other angles :?

rualexander - point taken about the steering... what exactly would happen? Steering very sensitive to any small movement of the bars? And which bit will be stressed?

531colin - I've seen bars that sweep back, but on holding a pair up to the ones I'm already using (which are this kind of shape http://www.evanscycles.com/products/sco ... 0-ec023249), the point where my thumbs/forefingers end up seems to be almost exactly the same place - they only seem to change my wrist position, not the amount of reach, and my wrists are OK at the angle they're already at (it's my back that wants to be able to straighten up a little). What would help would be some bars with more rise, but I've not seen any that are just a bit deeper rather than silly http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... 41&bih=523 Changing the handlebars rather than the stem would be ideal really as it'd do it without making the handling go wrong. Will keep looking...
gilesjuk
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by gilesjuk »

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horizon
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by horizon »

Alice: I have bought this one in the past - 60 degree rise and no problem.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... b0s88p1713

The effect of raising your bars by changing the angle is also to bring them closer so you should get the position you want. However an alternative option is a stem raiser, then to put on exactly the reach of stem you want. 50mm are obtainable (the angle won't matter once you have the stem raiser on). We have one on one of our bikes for a female rider who needs a shorter reach.

Don't forget that drop bars will create a longer reach than straight bars (I don't know what bars you have) so any change of bars will also change reach.

I didn't notice your type of stem - aheadset or quill. If the latter, then just get a converter and follow as above. My daughter's riding position was transformed in the ways described - you really must be 100% comfortable, and can be.

Hope this helps. Horizon.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
james01
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by james01 »

rualexander wrote:...your handlebars would be so close to the steering axis as to make the handling very 'lively'. To overcome this, the length of the stem would have to be overly long .


I've heard this theory before, but surely many bikes, especially sit up & beg types, have the hand position level with or even rearwards of the steering axis?
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CJ
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by CJ »

rualexander wrote:A stem with 50 degrees of rise or more would result in a real angle (taking head tube angle into account) of around 67 degrees which would be so steep as to mean that your handlebars would be so close to the steering axis as to make the handling very 'lively'.

Actually it wouldn't. Shortening the distance between the handlebar and the steering axis does not change the head angle or the fundamental steering characteristics of the bike. It alters the human input and feel of the steering, but not in a bad way. It just makes it feel a bit different and is nothing you can't just as easily get used to.

In fact: the "standard" road-racer setup, of a long extension and handlebars which sweep forwards so as to put your hands even further in front of the steering axis, is the weird one: in causing the rider's hands to sweep sideways as he steers, as much as they move back and forth. It's more like using a boat tiller than a steering wheel! But people can get used to riding that well enough, so they can surely get used to anything less extreme.

This was brought home to me by a colleague with a back injury who nevertheless wanted to keep riding her drop handlebar tourer and couldn't afford expensive alterations. So she simply raised the stem to max height and turned it around to point backwards (then re-fitted the handlebars). It worked just fine, no problems at all.

So I'd encourage the OP to ignore the naysayers and go fit their bars wherever they want them. The adjustable stem on the Cannondale Tesoro (I recently tested in Cycle mag) allows any angle from 0º to 90º, so zero extension is possible with that one. Only trouble is I think this stem must be made by a company without any UK distribution.

On the other hand (thinks aloud) I did buy that bike after the test, and I don't need the adjustment, so for the price of a good quality normal stem... If interested PM me.
Chris Juden
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hamster
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by hamster »

I converted an MTB to drops and used a stump-neck stem - as CJ says, handling was fine.
rualexander
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by rualexander »

Well, I don't like the feel of having my bars (or rather my hand position I guess) close to the steering axis, it feels too 'twitchy' to me. But I dare say you could get used to it as CJ says.
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CREPELLO
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by CREPELLO »

rualexander wrote:Well, I don't like the feel of having my bars (or rather my hand position I guess) close to the steering axis, it feels too 'twitchy' to me. But I dare say you could get used to it as CJ says.

I can see what both of you are saying. I do prefer as much weight over the front as is practical - the road feedback is just more 'there'. May I speculate that if you have a bike that already has lively steering, the shorter stem may take the weight off the front wheel, exacerbating the twitchy feel. Putting a longer stem on would put more body weight on the front wheel, which may in turn calm that liveliness somewhat.
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CJ
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by CJ »

CREPELLO wrote:May I speculate that if you have a bike that already has lively steering, the shorter stem may take the weight off the front wheel, exacerbating the twitchy feel. Putting a longer stem on would put more body weight on the front wheel, which may in turn calm that liveliness somewhat.

Not only do you have my permission to speculate, but also my agreement with the conclusion!

If the bike is designed to have a lot of bodyweight on the front wheel, that's likely to be how it rides best. But that is not, in my opinion, a good enough reason to adopt a more bent-over riding position than one's body can accommodate. If someone's back/neck whatever dictates they sit upright, sit upright they must. Ideally they should seek a bicycle that is designed to steer nicely with less weight on its front wheel, but if they must make do with what they already have (or what mass-manufacture dictates they shall have), light steering is a small price to pay for freedom from pain.

And if you have a bike with twitchy steering, you probably don't want to put a longer stem on it, even though it might calm the steering, since the longer stem only does that by making you bend further forwards, and if you were capable of bending that far forwards you'd surely have the longer stem on there already!

The thing to do with a bike that has too twitchy steering, when ridden by yourself in whatever position you like to ride it, is to sell it. Preferably sell it to someone who wants to ride it in a more forward-leaning kind of way, and will need a longer stem to ride like that.
Chris Juden
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alicej
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by alicej »

Hooray, hoorah, I've just put some BMX type handlebars on which give me loads more rise and are SOOO comfy! Can't believe how much difference it makes, feels like so much less effort to cycle. Probably looks a bit mad but I don't care.

I hereby declare this bike finished. Thanks so much everyone who's helped me put it together :D
alicej
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Re: Stem with over 40 degree rise?

Post by alicej »

High Handlebars small.jpg


Took it for a run this afternoon and I'm actually using at least one gear higher the whole time!

Steering is a little twitchier, but nothing I can't get used to. When I go somewhere I know will be uphill and windy I might use the adjustable stem to lower the bars a bit - I guess I can move the stem down/forwards and then twist the bars to point back a bit so they're lower but not further away. But this is just great for most of the time.
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