Charging devices via USB (and hello).

[Mjay]

Hello there.

I have just joined this forum because I am fascinated by things bike (if not slightly obsessed at the moment). I mostly like traveller’s tales and stories, which is a main reason for joining but I am also interested in the latest gadgets technology. I commute six miles every day; do a little touring in the summer or just like tinkering on a wet cold afternoon.

My reason for writing this post is to share my experiences with USB charging and also see if any one else has been experimenting with charging gadgets via dynamo hub while going away for a few days. This is a subject that often comes up on forums and on peoples various pod casts and blogs. I know a few people have been messing about with solar panels. There is a good account of this on Backpackinglight.com on their Outdoors Station MP3 pod casts (Solar Cyclists).

As many people these days I like to take my gadgets with me when I go away for a few days with my bike and camping gear or even when just going out for the day. Basically for communications, entertainment and security, recording my trails for Google Earth and to help give me a sense of place or home when I set up camp.

Main items I like to take currently are my Samsung Monte phone and the Active10 GPS. I searched around for ages and discovered a number of USB chargers available including solar and dynamo powered.

So far I have only experimented with one solar device, the Free Loader, which I am still experimenting with. To cut a long story short (at this point) I plumped for the Aussie Pedalpower+ as my main device. It is not available in England, but no problem. A quick e-mail to Nicholas Kidd at his web site (the inventor) and he will deliver you the device, paid for via Pay Pal within a week via Germany.

I opted for this particular device as it is very small, lightweight and blends into the bike. I only purchased two of the universal cables at this point. One for my touring bicycle and one for my MTB. I am considering buying the Li-Ion cell at a later date.

So far I am very impressed with it. I have been using it all summer and managed to keep my Satmap Active10 fully charged for the three to four days at a time while I was away with an average speed of 7mph (Yes, I know, slow, but I was on a fully loaded Mountain Bike!). It worked better on road at higher speeds. While off road the speed is lower and the Satmap tended to discharge over time, though slower than it would with no external input.

I have just made a small modification to my set up: connecting the Pedalpower+ in parallel with the lights. I am running a Shimano DH3D72 type hub and Schmidt Edelux front lamp with 4D Light Plus rear. First experiments suggest that this will work fine. Spinning the wheel on the stand powered up the lights with no noticeable loss of brightness while simultaneously charging and powering the Satmap. This would be equivalent to about 5mph. I have yet to try it out on a long run though.

I also experimented simultaneously running the lights while charging the Samsung phone or charging the Free Loader. As soon as I can find the right adaptors I am going to try and see how many devices I can charge at the same time. Up to three would be ideal. I don’t mind pedalling harder. One hardly notices the extra load anyway.

I would be interested if anyone else has experimented running more than one device in parallel using a dynamo hub as I do not know how much current one can draw from the hub before things start to go wrong or the hub starts melting.

My experimenting though seems to suggest that using the Dynamo hub is turning out to be a very, if not most practical long term solution for powering things while away, as long as the devices are small. It would be no good for laptops for example but might work with a Blackberry or any device chargeable via USB.

Does any one else have any experience with this? I hope my post is helpful and of interest and I’ll happily ramble on more if anyone is remotely interested!

[rollinbone]

Hi Welcome to the site.
Most if not all hubs have an maximum output of 6v 3W
It is my understanding that if you connect more than one devise then that power is shared, the hub will not be damaged.
So if you have more than one running they will all each get an equal, but reduced amount of the total output.
The hub does not increase its output to suit number of devises. They power output can be lower though, if you are going too slow.

I too have a SatMap and the same Hub as yours
I recently got an Ewerk that in tests charges the SatMap Bespoke battery from fully flat in about 2.5hours while riding a various
speeds. The Ewerk comes with may leads, one of which is a mini-usb that fits into the SatMap usb port below its rubber base cover.
Also you can vary the output of the Ewerk to suit your devise(s). Mine is currently set to same as a standard USB output.
Unfortunately I think this will only be usable when its not raining but I may find a way of waterproofing the lower bit of the SatMap (a condom perhaps?)
I assume you are aware that Satmap now has its own solar panel kit available, see their website.

I am thinking however of changing my hub next year to a SON. These seem to have better spec than all the Shimano ones, but are more expensive;
Starbikes sell them (and the Ewerk) What I don't want is to be in the middle of nowhere and find the thing breaking down due to invasion of water etc.

Have you noticed any drag with the Shimano hub while on the road, it does seem to stop very quickly if you spin the wheel manually, but maybe thats not a fair test.
See this: http://www.thebikebiz.com/Articles.asp?ID=153

This is me bike with the stuff on it - the EWerk is the black box on the frame with the leads coming out of it (here the usb is not connected to the SatMap)

[ersakus]

I can run my fujitsu loox PDA (gps system with 3000mah battery) and the led lights (front+rear) with SON delux + ewerk combination and charge the device while lighting the road. But anything further than that is perhaps asking too much from the dynamo. It might charge my Nokia smart phone in parallel most probably but have not had time to try that.
When the lights are off though, the power output is enough to quickly top up my PDA. Most probably 3 low drain devices can be charged at the same time. One has to experiment. I'd be curious to know if this is possible as well..

[Mjay]

Hello,

That E-werk looks much smaller on your bike than I imagined it would look. I saw it on Dotbikes’s web site after I bought the PP+. Seems like a great little device.

I tried the new dual set up with the Sat Map and Edelux in parallel while out on the bike today commuting. Even though it was sub zero it was kind of fun; wrapped up like a Hypothermic Eskimo. The frozen foggy air like tiny icy glitter, dancing in the beam from the lights. Very pretty though.

I am going to see how long I can keep the Sat Map going without charging it from an external source. For it to be any use on a longer trip away in the summer is needs to keep going indefinitely. In the summer I only use the lights when cycling under dense trees or in the rain anyway.

I am not a complete expert on eletricals. I remember with my first car, putting huge spotlights on the front of the Escort, as you do before you grow out of all that silliness. I managed to go through several alternators because it was not designed for 100’s of watts of lights. I kept melting alternators.

Bike Hubs are much lower power of course so it’s not the same. I read that some hubs are not electronically controlled and that they can put out a lot of voltage above 6V at higher speeds. The electrics in the lights protect against over voltage, but where does the extra power go? If P=IV then is that power available at higher speeds that one can draw the extra current? Mind you, I am a slow cyclist so maybe it is irevelent.

Also, USB only takes a few milliamps so maybe that is why I notice no loss of brightness in the Edelux. The PP+ is rated up to 600mA so perhaps if the devices on charge via PP+ together do not exceed that then, I don’t know. I’ll try experimenting and reading my phone and Satmap manuals to see what they like to eat or maybe just write to PP+ and ask!

Some people were toying with the idea of connecting up two Edelux in parallel. I wonder if any one has done this yet. The Edelux is expensive so maybe no one can afford to experiment.

I saw the Sat Map solar charger. I am going to search for people’s reviews to see if they think it is useful. I am researching solar panels but they are very expensive, take eight-plus hours to charge and receive mixed reviews.

I would have liked a SON hub but they are expensive. I fitted a Shimano to my MTB in spite of scepticism from the chap in the shop. I was happy enough with it so I had one fitted to my Tourer.

All was mostly OK until I wrote one hub off last winter when I went full speed through a 4” deep puddle. It was great fun at the time. I could not resist it. I wonder if Schmidt hubs are more waterproof.

I do not notice any drag on the hub since it was fitted. I think you would on a sportive super light set up. Maybe it works out an extra tin of beans or a mars bar every so many miles…

Anyway, just realised this post is way too long! I’ll experiment for a few weeks and report back.

[chrisw]

Hello

My best mate is currently cycling back from New Zealand, he's a real gadget freak and is powering everything on the trip from pedal and solar power, as far as practical. His musings on the subject can be found here:
http://www.bikeabout.co.uk/resources/powergadgets/pedalpower.shtml

Hope thats some use!

Regards

Chris.

[rollinbone]

I did ring up the SatMap people about the charge required and was informed that a standard USB
charge, from your computer or anywhere else is/must be 5V 0.8A.

So as the EWerk can be set to multi-output in .7V stages, I've got mine on 4.9V 0.8A

This seems to do the job when connected to the SatMap
This setting would also do with any devise, iPod etc, that can be charged via USB cable.

The EWerk comes with many connectors both for the SON and Shimano hub and includes
a Mini-USB and a Female standard USB cable amongst others.

You can also buy a storage battery for the Ewerk made by the same company. I mistakenly bought one of these and found it took ages to charge up.
My thinking was to charge this battery as I rode along, with it away from the weather in one of my front panniers.
Seems a lot simpler just to charge the devise directly though

Solar panels
In 2009 I did a trip of 1000+miles in UK (camping) with a Solar panel made by Silva, a 'Silva Solar I'
see: http://www.sailgb.com/p/silva_solar_i_a ... rycharger/
I think I paid about £30 for mine from another site
This I had pointing to the sky on top of my rack pack during the day and outside my tent in the evening
I found in rainy overcast days I could charge up 4 AA batts for the SapMap in 2 days
If sunny it was 1 day. However I was using about 9 AA batteries per day on the SatMap so it was still costing me
Plus there was the fiddling about changing the batteries twice a day, sometimes in the rain.
So thus I'm trying the Hub route, though the initial costs and the added weight is a drawback

Hubs
I'm reading things on this site and others that Shimano hubs have their bearings
exposed to the wet, while a SON is sealed but with a tube/hole or something that relieves the pressure
I guess you get what you pay for.

[rollinbone]

chrisw: jumped to your NZ pals site but no indication of what make of hub hes using.
he says its drag free so would be very interested to know if its a SON or Shimano
Do you know?

[chrisw]

My pals actually from here, he just decided to fly out to NZ with the bike and his better half and cycle back, as you do!

He is using a pedal power + ac hub dynamo with a V4 battery pack on one bike and a v4i battery pack on the other. They started with just the one hub, but now have one on both bikes. They are currently in China and have just cycled 9000km, so far as I'm aware there have been no reliability issues with the hubs.

Regards

Chris.

Edit:
Here the link to PP+ http://www.pedalpower.com.au/index_files/Page2167.htm
As the OP has said they can be ordered direct from the manufacturers and I'm sure thats what my friend did and then had it built into a wheel by a local wheelbuilder.

[fc101]

I share the OP’s (and many others) view that hub generator-powered USB charging is the way to go. I use the PedalPower+ charger in a couple of arrangements (always in parallel with an Edelux front light): directly connected via USB to GPS, phone, camera or head torch (for charging); or, indirectly to these same devices (mainly to the operating GPS in truth) but daisy-chained through one of the many Li-ion USB batteries currently available. Some of these batteries now have a very large capacity (e.g. PP+ V4i) and are handy for allowing a few days’ portable power when one is away from the bike. Be aware, some auxiliary batteries may not allow daisy-chaining (PowerMonkey eXplorer is one I’ve come across; perhaps they’ve improved it now).

With this set-up, I can cycle through the night with the front light shining, a back-lit GPS and charging a battery all at the same time. Our bikes are variously fitted with SONdelux/20R, SON28 and SON20 generator hubs, and always built into a large wheel. Of course, the limitation is how quickly the auxiliary battery is charged; it will take hours to charge fully a large capacity battery from scratch, so I charge this from the mains when I can too.

I too tried solar charging via USB (before the PP+ was launched), and I was very disappointed, even in the strong sun of Morocco in late May/early June! I opted for the FreeLoader Super Charger, since the large-area solar panel should offer better performance than pocket-sized devices. However, it couldn’t even manage to maintain the charge of the operating GPS (without any back-lighting naturally). A problem may have been the climate was too hot, since the energy conversion efficiency of solar cells falls markedly if the solar panel surface temperature gets too high (i.e. significantly above 25C). So, I’ve ditched solar charging, except perhaps for higher altitude travel when the sun can be strong without high temperatures. Instead, I prefer to use large capacity Li-ion batteries for several days’ travel when I don’t have the convenience of the hub generator.

[Mjay]

I am wondering if the success of powering multiple devices in one go comes down to the hub used. Next time I replace a hub I am thinking about replacing with a Schmidt. The SONdelux hubs do look a bit like Christmas baubles and I would love to hang some on my Xmas tree. The Shimano is working fine so far though with the two devices.

Until the snow started to fall I was running the Edelux and GPS in parallel for several days without using other charging methods. I will continue this project in the new year running more devices and pop back here later on and update this post with the results. I would like to keep this topic going for a while.

In the mean time I just received an e-mail from the ETA, who insure me and my bikes (I think it a good idea to have cycle and rescue insurance, but that is a topic for another post). The e-mail was about body heat powered cycle lights!

http://www.eta.co.uk/2010/12/10/body-he ... ear-future

If this came out in April I would take it with a pinch of salt but it looks genuine. I am sceptical but as soon as these come out, if not too expensive I might be experimenting.

I am also keeping my eye on fuel cell technology but presently this seems too big, balky and hazardous for uses beyond the automotive industry. I am thinking, with all the talk about electric cars, if only the battery technology for electric bikes would improve. a 20 mile range just is not satisfactory. I guess water bottle sized fuel cells are a few years off yet.

Edit:

I am also interested if anyone has managed to try out Tout Terrain's "The Plug" as this looks very discreet.

http://www.tout-terrain.de/2/products/c ... index.html

[Mjay]

Story so far...

I have Just a quick update for anyone who is interested. I have been out for a couple of rides recently using the Satmap and PedalPower+.

On the first occasion was on Boxing day on the mountain bike for a kind of short 30 miler in the snow. I was using both the Edelux and Satmap at the same time.

On the second occasion was last week on the tourer when I made the most of the sunny Sunday weather and cycled 50 miles from Didcot around Abingdon and Witney. I was only powering the SatMap to start with but spent two hours after dark on the way back running the SatMap and Edelux in tandem (to coin a cycling related pun).

It seems that using PedalPower+ I can keep the Satmap ticking over while using it with the Edelux but not fully charge it. I can fully charge the GPS if only using the SatMap and nothing else though.

I have just managed to get an Ordinance Survey mapping system running on my Samsung Monte phone using TrekBuddy, so as long as the GPS actually works I might be trying to use that while charging it with the USB. I am not too hopeful though. The Satmap is very good and so far TrekBuddy does not seem to see the GPS on my mobile.

At least I know that PedalPower+ will run lights for a short time with SatMap, as long as I am on the move but it only keeps the Satmap going. It does not charge it while running other devices in parallel.

(26 Feb 2011) Another quick edit...

I let the Satmap run down to empty to see if I could charge it from dead using the USB charger. The GPS would work for as long as I was moving fast enough. The touble is that if I went below 5mph or stopped then the unit would just fade out.

It seeems that usb charging is OK as long as there is enough residual power left in the Li-on internal battery to act as a buffer. To cover this I have just bought a battery back up unit to power either this device, or to charge my phone to get things going again fom dead if requuired using AA batteris that can be bought anywhere. I am going to cary it i the seat bag and run a usb cable to the handelbars.

Once there is enough power in the GPS to keep the unit going then I should be back in business with the Pedalpoer+ (hopefully).

The experimenting continues...

[Mjay]

Update May 2011...

Hello again,

It seems there are a few more posts like this appearing now, such as this chap http://middleagecyclist.blogspot.com/ (If I am allowed to post that). It was interesting reading his post about a new PadalPower+ device that has come out. As soon as I can save some money I am going to be trying it out. I am very impressed with the unit I currently have. The new Super-i-Cable device however is rated at 1000mA, twice that of the old PP+, whcih works OK at usual cycling speeds.

A previous poster suggested that 800 mA was the suggested charge rate of the Sat-Map Active 10. My present PP+ chrges at 500mA.

Recently I went away for two days camping in the Cotswalds, cycling 80 miles on day one (Average speed 11mph) and 60 miles the next day (average speed 7mph) and suffering for a week afterwards with very hurty legs I have to admit! After day one the unit was fully charged even though I started the day with it half charged. I was using it with the screen set to turn off after 5 minutes though.

I am still interested in other experiences, especially if you are better at posting or blogging than me. In the mean time I hope this post is still helpful and if anyone has the new PP+ SIC then I would be very interested to read about how you are getting on with it.

Cheers for now...

[ersakus]

My latest test after sorting out bad power connector.
SOn delux
ewerk
Fujitsu pda with GPS antenna
Music on
Tom Tom on

60 mile ride at 11mph average.

No problem keeping the charge at 100%
When I turned the lights on though I could see the PDA was not fed enough AMPs and would loose charge. I turn the lights off and the dynamo easily would top up to 100%
So not great if you want both lights on and the GPS/PDA on.
Still happy for my type of use (no camping unsupported etc.).

[Meshuga]

Hi,

I've been following your post with interest. I have been set up with hub powered lights (shimano 6v 3w hub and b&m lumotec iq senso plus) for years. I also happened to own 2 freeloaders of the 1000mA storage capacity. It struck me that although things like ewerk and pedal power were neat solutions and quite neat kit, they were also amazingly expensive.

For £25 I bought one of these

http://www.brocott.co.uk/electronic-devices/power-modules/bicycle-dynamo-powered-usb-charger-6vac-to-52vdc-p-1017.html?osCsid=v0fes1dkk3fbv3ei763g9e6rn5

I also bought a BBB Tool and tube can, drilled a hole in the top so I could put the cable fro the Kemo charger thru it, waterproofed it with a gromit and kept that in a bottle cage with the Freeeloaders inside. The result is a fairly cheap way of charging up the freeloaders whilst cycling to and from work. 2 hours riding at 500mA charges up one Freeloader. If touring this can power a number of devices whilst you are charging up the other Freeloader on the bike. The lights and usb charger can be rigged up in parallel but it takes twice as long to charge a freeloader whe running the light too.

Of course for me the economics made sense - i already had a dynamo and 2 freeloaders so it didn't make much sense to spend over £100 on another battery and what is basically a bridge rectifier hooked up to a mini USB connector. To buy a Kemo and a big lithium ion pack such as a 5000mAh New Trent dual port charger from amazon will only set you back £50 for the entire set up. A 10 hour ride will see such a big battery charged up if at a decent average speed. I would be wary of charging an expensive electronic device directly from the Kemo unit though as unlike the more expensive devices or cables, I doubt there is any over voltage protection built in. By charging up a separate and cheaper battery you are "buffering" any voltage spikes during your day's ride and protecting your £400+ smartphone with a £25 battery.

Also, with a third party battery you can charge it up in your hotel room if you wish. Not something I don't think is easily done with an ewerk or pedal power+ cable.

[rualexander]

Anyone used a Zzing?