Chains - is it me?

[Chodak]

For the past year my 10 speed audax bike has chewed up chains like they're going out of fashion. KMCs lasted as long as the proverbial chocolate teapots, Wippermans a bit longer (a few hundred miles) before they stretched beyond the 0.75 and equally significantly, before they would not shift chainrings across the full range of my Stronglight triple.

Then this winter I bought a tourer, also with Stronglight triple. Originally it was fitted with a Shimano Dura-Ace 9 speed chain. It performed perfectly at first and after about 200 miles I took the chain off to clean it, assuming the tourer wasn't going to have the same problem as the audax bike.

As I cleaned the Shimano chain, I put a spare Wipperman 9-speed on. After 100 miles the Wipperman wouldn't shift across the triple chainrings. I put the Shimano back on and it shifted across the full range with no problem without any adjustment. I've tried cleaning the Wipperman, but something has happened to it and whilst it still is way below the 0.75 stretch, it simply won't go into one of the three front chainrings. I can either have middle and big chainring, or middle and small, but not three, same problem as the audax bike.

Have others had this problem? Is the only cure to stick with Shimano if it's the one that works on my set-up?? As a secondary question, I do dislike the need for a chain-breaker on the Shimano, can I use a Wipperman or Sachs/SRAM quick-link safely on a Shimano?

All advice gratefully received.

[sungod]

are you sure the front derailleur is correctly adjusted?

if there's a slight difference in chain width then adjustment might be all that's required - i've never had trouble shifting between chainrings even with *very* worn chains

you can probably add a releasable link ok to the shimano chain, but i prefer to use sram chains as they include a 'powerlink' anyway and that way there's no compatibility issue

[Gearoidmuar]

Is there a twisted link in the Wipperman? Hard to spot.

[531colin]

What we call chain stretch is actually wear in the chain pivots. You seem to be wearing out a lot of chains on the audax bike - what lube are you using? Somebody already said not getting all 3 chainrings is more likely to be front mech. adjustment than a chain problem. I guess a different chain could be enough to make a difference to the adjustment ? .
Exactly what setup are you using on the bikes in terms of chainring sizes, shifters, front mechs.? I am a dinosaur still using downtube shifters, but somebody will be able to spot potential compatibility problems.
Happy new year to all cyclists, I see I'm not the only one on this forum new years eve / new years day !!!!!!

[Chodak]

Thanks chaps and Happy New Year!

sungod and 531colin: I've had the audax bike into both Spa Cycles and Cyclesense on a number of occasions to have the front mech adjusted. Each time they sorted it, but the improvement was short lived, often the problem was back within 100 miles or so. The bike shops aren't sure what's causing it and seem as bemused as me.

Eventually I switched the front mech for a new Ultegra mech. The problem was still there on a KMC chain I used straight after the switch, but thankfully my latest chain (a wipperman) has lasted longer and is still shifting ok after c200 miles. The audax bike is now tucked up for the winter and I'm using the tourer at the mo.

Then the same thing happened on my new tourer, but only with a wipperman chain. The Shimano dura-ace chain hasn't stretched and is still shifting fine after c300 winter miles or so. That's why my current guesses are that either a) the Shimano chain is more compatible with my set up, b) it's just better quality or c) the Shimano is more resilient to something I'm doing desperately wrong that I need to cure unless I want this to be a very expensive hobby indeed!

Geroidmuir - I don't know if the earlier chains twisted as I didn't keep them once they stretched, but I can't see any obvious signs on the latest wipperman from my tourer. If it were that, what could I possibly be doing to twist so many chains so quickly (probably 8 chains I've chewed up now).

[rgc_911]

Chodak,
I assume it is a band on/braze on front mech? When I had endless front mech problems on my TimeTrial bike I traced it to loose RivNuts holding the mech mounting bracket to the frame. It was moving all the time so was never right for long.
Borrowed a RivNut tool from a friend, pinched them up and never had a problem since.

Incidentally I have just fitted a Shimano Tiagra hollowtech triple , WIpperman chain and new cassette to my Dawes Audax (all 9speed).

Previously had Truvativ ISIS (spits) setup with KMC chain - all 9 speed.

I had to adjust both end stops on the front mech outwards - middle ring was fine but it wouldn't shift up or down from there.
A simple 1/4 turn on each screw was sufficient to get both rings shifting.

The gear change is very good now - one of the reasons I went for ramped and pinned chainrings rather than cheaper (Stronglight) ones.

I am glad I went Hollowtech as well - the bearing cups finish off the frame end much nicer than the ISIS BBs, (and I had been through 2 of those on a 4 year old bike) and it really does feel noticeably stiffer (although my old set up was totlally worn out)

However I now have to use the 1/2 click feature of the front shifter to stop the front mech rubbing on the chain as I shift across the cassette. I have never done it in the past, but I assume Shimano designed it in for a reason.

I went for a Wipperman chain as I've heard bad things about Shimano chains and Connex Quicklinks are by far the easiest to fit/remove - but I lost that one somewhere in the garage during the install - doh!

Happy New Year

Cookie

[andrew_s]

I wouldn't rely on a chain checker to assess wear properly. Use a ruler instead, measuring over 10-12".
Some chains can show as worn out on a checker even when they have never been used.

The checkers all (except the Shimano) measure between a roller pushed one way and a roller a few links on pushed the other way. Roller movement has no effect on the chain in use, and some chain manufacturers have looser rollers than others. If the roller movement doesn't match the expectations of whoever made the chain checker, you get the wrong answer.

[squeaker]

Just a thought, but maybe it's your chain cleaning regime? If you go the thorough degrease route, then it's vital to get the right lubricant back into the bearings. But don't ask me how, I just wipe my chains / cogs with a rag when they look grubby, and apply decent oil link-by-link when they look dry / start squeaking Works for me

[mrbarry]

The chain I have has now done around 1100 miles, I have cleaned it 3 times the MickF method to lube it I dip it and let it drip dry twice in paraffin with 20% engine oil to be sure it gets into the centre of the link rollers, this tub is kept for future uses. Then I clean and lube the cassette, spray HOT chain lube onto the chain (heating it in water at 50-60C from the hot tap makes it runny and it gets between the links better) then turn the chain on the bike for 30 seconds or so to work the lube in. Job done. Measured with vernier there is no stretch to detect over 12 links.

I have a Shimano chain and KMC link, and a SRAM chain and KMC link on another bike, and a Shimano chain and SRAM link on another. All perfectly fine, 9 and 10 speed.

[fatboy]

I am coming to the conclusion that I trash chains. I do a reasonable but not excessive mileage but in all weathers (my 260 mile tour was in foul weather) and my cleaning regime leaves a lot to be desired! Given I work long days and have three kids the fact that you can tell my bike is a bike is in itself an acheivement!

I've just changed my chain as it had stretched by the 1/16" for 12 links in just shy of 6 months. I changed it and all is well. It probably could have lasted a bit longer but I didn't want to trash everything else (which I did last time around!). I wish that I could do better than this but from now on I'm going to change my chain twice yearly, Christmas and June. It's my cheapest option.

BTW I use SRAM chains, are there chains that might last longer or is a chain a chain a chain?

[Mick F]

Someone suggested I tried different chains to see if some were longer lasting than others. I used to use Sedis Sport chains, and had good mileage from them, but I never kept records in those days.

Nowadays I've been using Campag chains. My last 9sp one was eventually taken off at 7,500 miles when I went to 10sp. I have two chains now and both have done in excess of 3,000 miles. There is no stretch whatsoever on them.

As for testing other chains, I'm unwilling to do it because I don't want to compromise my cassette or lose any shifting performance. I like the system that I have, it's perfect and don't want to try anything else.

[Gearoidmuar]

I have a feeling that riding with your chain crossed a lot, i.e., at an angle, is a serious wearer of a chain and to be avoided if possible. Now, this is not scientific but I did Lejog in July on a hilly route and finished up with a worn chain after the 1200 odd miles or whatever it was. This chain was rodgered and had been fitted about 2 weeks beforehand.
I now have a Rohloff and after 2000 miles including a 1000 mile odd tour, I can detect no wear.

[Mick F]

I did a 1,400 mile hilly tour in 2008. I deliberately picked the scenic and the hills - big 'uns too!
http://www.my-grand-tour.blogspot.com
I had some atrocious weather, and I only had one day off to do any bike cleaning. I drizzled White Lightning on the chain every morning, but that was all I did in the lubrication department.

I am still using the same chain now with zero wear.

Why some people get such pitifully low mileages on chains, I have no real ideas.

[fatboy]

I have a feeling that riding with your chain crossed a lot, i.e., at an angle, is a serious wearer of a chain and to be avoided if possible. Now, this is not scientific but I did Lejog in July on a hilly route and finished up with a worn chain after the 1200 odd miles or whatever it was. This chain was rodgered and had been fitted about 2 weeks beforehand.
I now have a Rohloff and after 2000 miles including a 1000 mile odd tour, I can detect no wear.

I try to avoid the serious chain angles. I did Coast and Castles+ (266 miles!) in awful weather with a mixture of surfaces. At times the grit made the chain grind terribly (but it quietened down over a few miles) which can't have done the chain any favours. I now have a mud-flap which might help.

[fatboy]

Why some people get such pitifully low mileages on chains, I have no real ideas.

You do really

I really wish that I could get time to clean stuff more but for the next several years I'm not going to (I'd rather ride than clean!). Sadly I've never got WL to not go rusty (maybe better plating on a chain). So for now I'm going to stick to £9 chains and regular chain changing.