Dating a Claud Butler

[BenG]

Can anyone help me put a date to a Claud Butler Olympic frame? The number stamped under the bottom bracket is 000017, although the fifth digit is indistinct and could be a one, a three, or something else. The frame has a metal headbadge. Many thanks - BenG

[Wildduck]

Worried there for a moment, I thought you meant taking one out to the cinema then perhaps a meal and a glass of wine/oil!

[asterix]

Is that the one with an Olympic Ring design on it, 531 tubes and pencil stays? Well, anyway that's what mine was like and I virtually gave it away years ago.

Mine (bought 2nd hand) would have been no later than the mid 70's and more likely made in the 60's. Apparently the older CBs are now sought after by collectors.

[BenG]

Thanks, asterix. Yes your description is exactly as is. Because its has a six digit frame number with the first four being zero's it made me wonder if it was an early example, not necessarily to sell - although if a collector offers me squillions I might reconsider. Thanks again.

[thirdcrank]

BenG

The history of the Claud Butler marque is here:

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/claudbutler.html

I think the key phrase from your point of view is: The Claud Butler marque continues to this day, but ever since the sale of the Claud Butler name in 1957, the marque has simply been a valuable label for the shameless re-branding of generic and characterless products by a succession of exploitative trade-mark owners i.e. anything after 1957 is not a real Claud.

Detailed catalogue and some identification info is here:-

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/ClaudButler.htm

I think the main bit of info from your point of view is that the name 'Olympic' was only ever used by CB on track bikes. ('Path' is synonymous with 'track' in the sense that Chris Hoy would use the term.) It was applied to both road and track bikes in the Holdsworth era. So, if it's a track frame, it might be a genuine Claud, if it's a road frame it isn't. As I read it, the name Olympic was not used after Holdsworths were taken over by Falcon.

If I can put this in perspective, when I started cycling in 1958 Claud Butler was a legend, and so were his bikes. I think it's hard today to get across the respect/ awe, whatever cyclists had for that make of bike. (Probably exaggerated in my memory because I was only 13) I think the comment about 'shameless rebranding' is a little harsh in respect of the Holdsworth set-up which made CB's from 1957 onwards - they were not junk bikes - even though they were certainly not real Clauds. In any case, I fancy the condition of your frame will have a big influence on value.

I think you may generate a bit more comment if you post some pics. It would also show whether it was a track or a road frame. (There are various differences between road and track frames but perhaps the easiest to spot is that a track frame will normally have rear fork ends where the wheel is removed backwards rather than forwards.)

[BenG]

Thanks to thirdcrank for a very comprehensive reply and valuable links to further information. From this I deduce with some certainty that my winter hack is a Holdsworth/Claud that started life some time after 1970, that being the first date of reference to Olympic Road as distinct from a fixie. Mine is definitely a road frame (road drop-outs, brazed on stops for gear and brake cables, Reynolds 531, 72 degrees parallel, etc.) and the headbadge (CB in roundel over stylised rectangular olympic rings over London England) is exactly as depicted in the 1976 catalogue. My curiosity is now satisfied. Thanks, all.

[hikernick]

Hi, just found this thread via a Google search, hope it's OK to piggyback

I have a similar bike whose serial number is 29470. Looking at the catalogues on http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/ClaudButler.htm the Olympic road frame appears to have been introduced at least by 1968, a picture of the detail of the front forks is identical to mine. I bought mine in 1976 for (I think) £18, from Horsley Cycles (who are still there on Station Approach in East Horsley). I asked about second hand bikes (I was 17 at the time and couldn't afford much) and was told "all I've got is an old Claud Butler", so it was considered old by then. Apart from a bent seat tube, which it's had since the day I had it, it's been an elegant, faithful workhorse for many years and miles since. I resprayed it (badly) the first year I had it, and am now thinking about restoring it to its original black. It's not much to look at these days, but I put some new tyres on it at the weekend because I was sick of riding a mtb to and from work, and wow, the pleasure is still there. Comfy Brooks saddle, and near-silent, effortless cruising on the road. Bit bumpy on the cycle paths round Swindon though - the surface doesn't get much care

So, apart from knowing it was built between 1968 and 1976, is there any way of being any more precise from the frame number?

It has some nice ally drop bars with a GB logo on and a little map of the UK.

Thanks

Nick

[Maverick777]

Good info. Thanks

[Brucey]

I have a similar bike whose serial number is 29470...... I bought mine in 1976 .....I put some new tyres on it at the weekend .....and wow, the pleasure is still there....

I think you can go a long way and not find many nicer riding frames than those, (esp in middling sizes). I don't think they were terribly expensive in their day or anything like that but for the money, they were brilliant, and in absolute terms they were pretty good too.

IIRC the Olympic road model in powder blue/white with the ring motif everywhere was current in the mid 1960's. I used to have one (again bought used, years later). If you have the original parts that were on the frame then these may be a good clue to manufacture date even if the frame number doesn't tell you what you need to know. Things like brakes and hubs often have a date mark on them, and even brooks saddles can have date marks too. Williams chainsets have a two letter date code, and so on.

cheers

[tatanab]

Frame numbering must have been all over the place with Holdsworthy Claud Butlers. hikernick's 1976 Olympic road has a number of 29470, yet in 1976 I bought an Olympic Sprint (path) frame bearing the number 70082. This was to replace an early 60s one that was written off, unfortunately I did not keep notes of frame numbers until 1976. Brucey - yes, my 60s Olympic Sprint was powder blue with white head tube and block on the seat tube; my 1976 was metallic red and white.

Both Olympic Sprint and Olympic Road frames were in the catalogue when I started riding in 1968, but even these plain gauge models were beyond my pocket as a teenager.

[muirmackean]

Can anyone help me date a Claud Butler Coureur frame with the number 27314 - it has a metal badge with the Olympic rings, Bayliss BB, 2 tone red & white paintwork.
Cheers, Muir