Punctures - fed up.

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jb

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by jb »

Hi AntonyG

Enjoyed reading your review, a bit more informed & detailed than our local "tyre expert"

But unfortunately I don't think the laws of physics will allow them to become much better than they are now. Good quality puncture resistant tyres blown up hard should give far better service.

cheers
andrew_s

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by andrew_s »

I'd recommend trying the Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres before Gatorskins.

Gatorskins (and Panaracers) are the sort of tyre you'd use on Audax or club rides - reasonably quick, and not all that puncture prone - but not up to riding over broken bottes regularly.
Marathon plus tyres will be a lot tougher, but will be too heavy for most sports riders.
Beep!Beep!

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by Beep!Beep! »

AntonyG if you need help e-mail tyredocter@hotmail.co.uk
Beep!Beep!

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by Beep!Beep! »

These can be got at trailbuzz.com-hope this helps

No Flat Tyre Patented
No more flat tyres!
Caused by: glass splinters, gravel, shells and drawing pins.
The fun of cycling is often spoiled by a flat tyre. Put an end to this annoyance. Put on Dutch Perfect No Flat Tyre bicycle tyres.

Dutch Perfect No Flat Tyre is the only anti-puncture bicycle tyre with double security. Patented, therefore absolutely unique!

One year anti-puncture guarantee
Only Dutch Perfect guarantees you up to two years after the purchase date or up until the wearing limit has been reached, that you will not have to cope with faults or punctures. Of course, in normal use.

This set-up, known from television and numerous demonstrations on four day bicycle tours, proves the impossible. The Dutch Perfect No Flat Tyre is the only bicycle tyre that withstands with a wheel pressure of no less than 100 kg some glass splinters, drawing pins and other sharp street refuse.


There are a number of tyres on the market which are supposed to be anti-puncture tyres. Do not be deceived. Watch out for the Anti-Puncture logo on the paper information strip which is attached to each Dutch Perfect No Flat Tyre bicycle tyre.


Dutch Perfect No Flat Tyre: Two layers, double security!


A tough and flexible flexigum layer resistant to sharp objects under the tread resists practically all sharp impurities on the street. Glass splinters, gravel, shells and even drawing pins do not stand a chance!
The underlying harder breaker layer finally breaks the worst offenders, thorns!

Dutch Perfect No Flat Tyre: The most comfortable!
Super-light moving: approximately 25% less rolling resistance due to a special profile and a specially chosen layer structure.
Dutch Perfect No Flat Tyre: Lasts the longest!
High-quality wear-resistant rubber: optimal cycling pleasure for years.
Additional guarantee
In the case of the Dutch Perfect No Flat Tyre there is an additional Anti-leak guarantee (glass, shells, gravel, plant, hedge and tree thorns or spikes, and even drawing pins).
Excluded from the anti-leak guarantee are items causing leaks such as sharp objects longer than 0.5 cm, or 0.3 cm in the case of tyres with a width of 25 mm or less. Leaks caused by other factors such as spokes, rims, damage and destruction when the inner tube is not replaced at the same time as the outer tyre and/or when the inner tube is of different manufacture, and not by something sharp having penetrated the running surface, are not covered by the guarantee.
For tyres of the Dutch Perfect No Flat Tyre make the guarantee entitlement will expire 12 months after delivery or when the wear and tear margin has been reached (0.5 mm of tread or less remaining).

If unexpected problems arise, please take the outer tyre and inner tube back to the place of purchase.




(a Dutch invention) can only be bought from the better bicycle specialist. For addresses of dealers:
Tel. +31 (0)561 - 481233 / Fax +31 (0)561 - 481289
E-mail: dutch-perfect@tref.nl
Internet: www.dutch-perfect.nl
Mossy

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by Mossy »

He's copied the text again!
Have you not heard of copyright law?
CJ

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by CJ »

I am interested to read AnthonyG's comments on Greentyres, as I conducted a survey of CTC member's experiences with them shortly after they were new on the market. Members of some standing can read all about it on p28 of their July 1993 CTC magazine.

In addition to fitting difficulties and a less comfortable ride, our members found them more slippery in the wet and harder work to pedal. Those who regularly rode in company complained the most about this, since they found themselves getting left behind, whereas the solo riders, lacking such a humiliatingly obvious pointer to the fact that they were going slower, often didn't notice it at all!

Anthony's observations of the effect of increased vibrations upon his bell and lamp are also very telling. In their longer-lasting trials of these tyres, some of our riders found their previous puncture problems were replaced by a new and even worse problem of persistent spoke breakages! Nevertheless, some other riders had such an awful problem with punctures in their neighbourhood that they decided to keep using their Greentyres.

I've recently been pestered by another outfit: Ameritiyres, to review something similar that they're putting out. Since in eight years riding 6 miles to work almost every weekday, I've yet to suffer a puncture, I'm not particularly motivated and have thus far resisted their pestering! So if you're listening Anthony, if you are a CTC member and would like to email chris.juden at you know where, I can probably get you a free pair to try. Note: this offer is open only to AnthonyG (please use same email account as the one with which you access this board), who by the consistency with previous experience of his analysis of Greentyres has shown himself capable of assessing the relative merits of this kind of product (apart from the rolling drag, oh well, you can't have it all!).

Time wasters (you all know who I mean) need not apply!
Beep!Beep!

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by Beep!Beep! »

Mossy Dutch Perfect tyres are not common in Britain and the man is good enough to get them from the Netherlands spoke on the phone so we should at least be trying them as I plan to do and they do sound good. Cannot wait to try them!
Mossy

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by Mossy »

Sorry Beep!Beep!, I won't be responding to your misleading comments again.
I'm doing what the rest of the forum are doing and ignoring you
The Whyte Rider

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by The Whyte Rider »

Over the past 10 years I've tried a variety of tyres on my daily urban commute. This includes 3 miles of towpath. Glass, thorns, nails etc are a constant hazard. During the summer I use Conti GP3000s (23c) & would expect to get 3 or 4 punctures in that period. I consider this acceptable when the weather is OK, given the extra speed offered by these tyres. Winter is a different matter. Changing a tube in freezing conditions in the dark is something I want to avoid. I've tried Conti Top Touring, Gator Skins, & Schwalbe Marathon (28-32c). All roll Ok but I've also had punctures with all. I fitted some 28c Schwalbe Marathon plus for this winter. So far no punctures. They also roll Ok. Only drawback is that they are very tight on my rims (Campag Vento) (tyre levers as supplied with Mavic wheels are the only ones that I've got which can put the tyre on/off). Self sealing tubes definately work (up to a limit) but they seem to be more prone to puncturing, so there may be no net gain. Keeping the tyres pumped up to maximum pressure also helps.
crs1953

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by crs1953 »

I've been using the same tyres on both my bikes for over a year now. An old thing I commute to work on and my 'better' one for leisure riding / touring.
They're Michelin Transworld City

www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s142p334

Now I am NOT 'recommending' these tyres in any way - just saying that i've found them ok in all respects. My main point is that I haven't had a single puncture which is down to - IMHO - a combination of good luck and the fact that I keep them inflated to AT LEAST the recommended maximum pressure indicated on the sidewall. I echo the observations of so many other cyclists on this issue in saying that the key to minimising the likelihood of punctures is to keep 'em hard !!! ( tyres )
Elucasr

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by Elucasr »

I've found that on clubruns, people who ride close to the kerb get the punctures. Those who ride further out do not get so many.

If drivers drove close to the kerb they would also get a lot of punctures. It's a sad fact that high speed traffic "sweeps" the rubbish into the kerb.
The Whyte Rider

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by The Whyte Rider »

I knew I shouldn't have made that last post! The day afterwards I went to get my bike out & found I had a puncture. A 5mm shard of glass was still in the tyre & had just penetrated the tube. So, Schwalbe marathon plus tyres can be punctured. Having said that, the tyres are virtually otherwise unmarked after 5 months use. Other tyres that I've used would have a number of nicks & cuts on them by now.
geocycle

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by geocycle »

I'm a big fan of Schwalb Marathon's. Due to a purchasing mistake I run 28mm on the front and 32mm on the back on my hybrid 700c. Only had two punctures in the last 5000 miles including lots of Sustrans 'offroad options' and an urban commute. There are a lot of gashes in the tyres but so far they seem OK. One of the two punctures was a 1.5 inch screw that had bizzarly embedded itself straight into the tyre and had to be removed with a screwdriver, so I don't blame the tyres for this one! It was on this occaision by the road side that I discovered inner tube valves come in different lengths and the spare I had carried for years was not compatible with my new double skinned rims.....
AntonyG

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by AntonyG »

Since I returned to pneumatic tyres, I’ve been following the widespread and somewhat counter-intuitive advice about keeping the pressure up near the top end of the tyre rating. (Surely it’s easier to pop a balloon when it’s blown up harder?). Amazingly, I have to say that it seems to be working so far – I’ve gone from a puncture every week to no punctures in four weeks, and given the amount of broken glass around at the moment, that’s a miracle. The only disadvantage is the harder ride, which is tough on the wrists without front suspension. (Yes I am a wuss. So what.)

I don’t really understand the physics behind the reduction in punctures, but my best guess is that it must be to do with the reduced tyre contact area, and the way that the tyre deforms when it first hits a piece of glass. It could also be that the ‘Flat-Away’ Kevlar tape I installed after Christmas works better when the tyre pressure is high. (For anyone that hasn’t seen this particular variety, it isn’t really tape at all – more like a strip of felt. Presumably the fibres will put up a bit more resistance to a sharp object when they’re held tighter by the tension in the tyre wall.)

Anyway, I’ve swapped back to solid tyres for a little while: this time I’m trying out the Amerityres procured by Chris J. If you’re interested, here’s a short review to parallel the GreenTyre test.

---------------------------------------------

Disclaimer: As before, the opinions expressed below are provided in good faith, and I have no financial or other interest in Amerityres. I should point out that Amerityres kindly provided the samples for me to test free of charge (as far as I know!), but since the tyres weren’t accompanied by a brown envelope stuffed with used fivers and two first class tickets to the Seychelles, my review is totally unbiased.

SUMMARY

A bit better than the GreenTyres, but still too hard for my liking. Whereas I have to give the GreenTyres a considered thumbs-down, I could just about recommend the Amerityres to any puncture-weary commuters who have the luxury of being able to stick to smooth tarmac all the way. For the rest of us, front and back fork suspension is a must, or a sprung saddle post at the very least. If the GreenTyres got 4/10, Amerityres get 6/10. Just.

FIRST IMPRESSIONS

It took me over a week to summon the courage even to put them on. While the GreenTyres do have some degree of ‘give’ in them, the Amerityres look (and feel) like solid rubber. On bouncing the two side by side, it is obvious that the GreenTyre is made from a heavily damped material (lossy), while the Amerityre is an awful lot more elastic. Not a good initial indicator.

The mechanical design of the Amerityres seems a bit less sophisticated, too: the inside wall has a simple convex cross-section that fits snugly into the wheel recess, presumably leaving no air gap. The inner wall of the GreenTyre is more complex, and comes complete with ‘teeth’ around the circumference, perhaps helping to decouple the tyre from the wheel rim somewhat.

On the plus side, the Amerityres were a decent thickness – I just can’t understand why the GreenTyres are that much thinner.

FITTING

Maybe I perfected the knack practising with the GreenTyres, or maybe the Amerityres really were easier to get on. Either way, it took around fifteen minutes to do both wheels. Unfortunately the Amerityres come with even less in the way of instructions, and no cable ties – I had to use my own. Once again, a special ‘tool’ was provided (basically a comedy-sized tyre lever), but similarly lacking the small lip at the end which otherwise helps to give some purchase on the wheel rim.

RIDE

Bumpy, but in a different way to the GreenTyres – resonant, rather than jolting. More like sitting on a washing machine at the top of the spin cycle. The GreenTyres made my wrists and ankles ache, while the Amerityres gave me that whole-body, weak-at-the-knees sensation. Who knows, some people might even like it! I guess the difference is that the GreenTyres are made of a very ‘dead’ material, which compresses only so far, then transmits every further displacement with equal fidelity, while the rubbery Amerityres ‘ring’ at their own frequency. On the whole, I could probably just about get used to the Amerityres, whereas I was gagging to get the GreenTyres off straight away. But I suspect that prolonged use of either would give me nasty medical bills in years to come.

Perhaps the most tangible comparison with GreenTyres is that my bell wasn’t ringing all the way, this time; just the occasional ping. (My light didn’t go out either, but that’s because I took a soldering iron to it last week.)

The proper cyclists out there will be wondering about rolling resistance. I’m not a proper cyclist, so I can’t honestly tell you – I seldom go above 20 mph for more than a few minutes. It did feel like I was having to put in a little bit more oomph than with pneumatic tyres, but not a lot. Low-speed commuters won’t notice the difference, for sure. I had planned to do some scientific tests with my speed indicator and a convenient hill, but we haven’t had enough days without wind for me to get reliable results yet.

Also, the lack of rain here has meant that I can’t say an awful lot about road-holding, but I would imagine that solid tyres are never going to outperform pneumatics there. But is a day-to-day commuter really going to worry, especially when you take into account the original reason for resorting to solid tyres?

CONCLUSION

The Amerityres gave me a bit of a surprise, after poor first impressions. I don’t know what they cost, but if it’s similar to the GreenTyres, then I’d say they might be worth a go if you’re in the same position as me (i.e. chronic glass problem), and you don’t mind a hard ride. I’ll keep going with them for a while just to see how I get on, but in the end I suspect I’ll go back to pneumatics of one form or another.

OUTLOOK

I still think there’s a gap in the market. Of course nobody wants to have to put up with mushy foam-filled tyres that soak up all your energy, not even the humble commuter who plods along at 10 mph. But I’m sure it’s possible to sacrifice just a bit more rolling resistance for a puncture-free ride that isn’t going to wreck all your joints.
AntonyG

Re:Punctures - fed up.

Post by AntonyG »

Quick update on the Amerityres:

(1) I've done some semi-scientific tests on rolling resistance, with the help of a hill and a speedometer. In fact, I can't see any significant difference between ATs and normal pneumatics. ATs are heavier, so it takes a lot more effort to get them going; but when they're moving, they don't seem to be absorbing any more energy. So at a steady pace, you won't notice the difference (I didn't, anyway). Just don't use the brakes too much!

I was unable to get up to 'cruising' speed with GreenTyres because the vibrations were that much worse. (Although I have to say that the ATs made my headlight fly apart this morning, cycling along the main road. Fortunately the two halves were held together by all the wires I soldered in last week.)

(2) The front wheel handling seems to be a bit better with ATs than with GTs. ATs don't try to veer off noticeably, whereas I had to make a concerted effort to hold the GTs straight. Something to do with the more 'squashed' profile of the latter?

(3) We've now had some rain, so I can report that ATs don't seem to be any more slippy than my original pneumatic tyres (Kenda 700x35C - came with the bike). Can't compare with GreenTyres because I had dry conditions previously.
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