Latex inner tubes - unreliable?

[pliptrot]

I used Vittoria latex inner tubes a lot in the past but found they failed frequently at the valve. I have now tried Michelin Airstop latex tubes; 700x23 in the same size tyres. Fitting them they both failed at 80psi. The tyres are not new, and have done 5000 miles, the "finger test" proves they are without infiltrations. The tubes were well talc-ed and installed carefully; inflated first to 40 psi, deflated and then re-inflated. That is 20 quid done in one wasted evening. Does anyone else have similar experience?

[Samuel D]

AirStop is Michelin’s butyl brand, I think. I guess you mean AirComp. Did you take them out to see how they had failed? Perhaps you need new rim tape.

[Gattonero]

Strange, I've been using latex Vittoria's or Michelin without any problem. The Michelin seem to hold pressure a bit better.

I usually don't bother with talc, is never that warm in UK, unless I'm going to Italy or Spain there is a different story.
Btw, never use Latex tubes with carbon rims

[geocycle]

Btw, never use Latex tubes with carbon rims

That's interesting, can you elaborate please?

[Samuel D]

I’m also curious why running latex tubes with carbon clinchers should ‘never’ be attempted – not that I’m likely to buy carbon rims any time soon.

[MikeDee]

I’m also curious why running latex tubes with carbon clinchers should ‘never’ be attempted – not that I’m likely to buy carbon rims any time soon.

Heat related problems.

[Des49]

I understood that latex is less heat tolerant than butyl, carbon rims dissipate heat less easily than aluminium. Therefore it is more likely to experience temperatures that are dangerous to latex on carbon brake tracks.

On a tubular rim the inner tube will be not in immediate contact with the brake track, so I assume this really is an issue with wire on tyres only.

This link here is informative, scroll halfway down for the relevant section:-

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/ ... ore_370761

[Brucey]

I used Vittoria latex inner tubes a lot in the past but found they failed frequently at the valve. I have now tried Michelin Airstop latex tubes; 700x23 in the same size tyres. Fitting them they both failed at 80psi. The tyres are not new, and have done 5000 miles, the "finger test" proves they are without infiltrations. The tubes were well talc-ed and installed carefully; inflated first to 40 psi, deflated and then re-inflated. That is 20 quid done in one wasted evening. Does anyone else have similar experience?

did you check to see where they failed? One mode of failure is if the tyre bead is not a tight fit on the rim and there is a gap beneath the bead; a latex tube can bulge into a gap of that sort and then burst, where a butyl tube might be OK.

cheers

[pliptrot]

Brucey,

both tubes show small, round holes at approximately the same place (both failed on the same wheel). So your theory holds water - thanks. I will replace the rim tape (although there are no obvious issues with the current Velox tape) and make some attempt at repairing these and trying again. thanks to all for advice and I will report back with my findings. I am always pleased with the idea that problems are due to my inherent stupidity or lack of care (normally an idea proposed at work) - these things I can work on, whereas poor product quality is out of my control, other than spending elsewhere.

[Brucey]

if the tyre is a loose fit on the rim I daresay the same thing might happen again. If the tyre is a folding one it isn't always possible to judge what the fit is like once the tyre is inflated; the beads stretch a bit.

good luck!

cheers

[pliptrot]

The tyre is a Michelin Pro 3 which is a tight fit - on first fitting a tyre lever had to be used. (Rims are MA0s - the last of them sadly). I'll be footling tonight and will let you know if everything ended up in the bin or not.

[MikeDee]

I used Vittoria latex inner tubes a lot in the past but found they failed frequently at the valve. I have now tried Michelin Airstop latex tubes; 700x23 in the same size tyres. Fitting them they both failed at 80psi. The tyres are not new, and have done 5000 miles, the "finger test" proves they are without infiltrations. The tubes were well talc-ed and installed carefully; inflated first to 40 psi, deflated and then re-inflated. That is 20 quid done in one wasted evening. Does anyone else have similar experience?

did you check to see where they failed? One mode of failure is if the tyre bead is not a tight fit on the rim and there is a gap beneath the bead; a latex tube can bulge into a gap of that sort and then burst, where a butyl tube might be OK.

cheers

I have a difficult time believing that can happen. In my experience, it's easy to pinch a latex tube under the bead when mounting them. I blew a Challenge one like that. The tube was undersized in diameter.

[Brucey]

The tyre is a Michelin Pro 3 which is a tight fit - on first fitting a tyre lever had to be used. (Rims are MA0s - the last of them sadly). I'll be footling tonight and will let you know if everything ended up in the bin or not.

if the tyre is really tight then pinching seems more likely than the 'gap' hypothesis.

Good luck!

cheers

[Gattonero]

I used Vittoria latex inner tubes a lot in the past but found they failed frequently at the valve. I have now tried Michelin Airstop latex tubes; 700x23 in the same size tyres. Fitting them they both failed at 80psi. The tyres are not new, and have done 5000 miles, the "finger test" proves they are without infiltrations. The tubes were well talc-ed and installed carefully; inflated first to 40 psi, deflated and then re-inflated. That is 20 quid done in one wasted evening. Does anyone else have similar experience?

did you check to see where they failed? One mode of failure is if the tyre bead is not a tight fit on the rim and there is a gap beneath the bead; a latex tube can bulge into a gap of that sort and then burst, where a butyl tube might be OK.

cheers

I have a difficult time believing that can happen. In my experience, it's easy to pinch a latex tube under the bead when mounting them. I blew a Challenge one like that. The tube was undersized in diameter.

What actually happens with most Latex tubes is that they are too big, then easy to pinch while fitting.
Using 23-25mm road tyres, there's no point in having a 20+mm actuall size of the inner tube. It shold be smaller, so 18-20mm: the Butyl or Latex do stretch, a lot, they're meant to
Of course, one can use a tube that is an actual size as big as the tyre, it means will stay ticker while inflated inside the tyre, but it needs to be fitted carefully and that may not be easy on tight-fit tyres like Michelins and some shallow rims.

Btw, when I mean "actual size" of the tube, is laying it flat and uninflated, and measuring the real width.
Butyl would easily stretch 50% and Latex even more