Swapping cages on Campag Veloce 10v rear mech

[sun ra]

I've swapped rear mech cages on 10v Record and Chorus mechs but not a Centaur or Veloce rear mech from the older 9 or 10 speed groups as these use a C-clip to secure the pivot bolt (instead of an allen key type hex bolt).

Just wondered if anyone had successfully switched cages on a centaur with the c-clip fixing? I could just go ahead and try, but it's a fiddly component to reassemble (most likely made harder if one was having to reattach a c-clip).

[Brucey]

you can often find out if the parts are going to fit by downloading the relevant campag parts pdfs (by year) which are available from the campagnolo website.

From memory the long cage and shorter cage models generally use the same parts elsewhere, often even the springs are the same too.

It is fiddly to reassemble these mechs; if the spring is deformed (compressed, bent ends etc) then it may slip out of position before it is secure.

cheers

[tatanab]

I've done that on 8 and 9 speed mechs using the circlip method. No problem at all getting things apart or back together. So I have something Campag did not make - a long cage Veloce 8 speed mech.

[sun ra]

I've done that on 8 and 9 speed mechs using the circlip method. No problem at all getting things apart or back together. So I have something Campag did not make - a long cage Veloce 8 speed mech.

I had a hunch it would work but as said it being a tricky job - to reassemble the spring, cage and then hold in place while attaching the clip - didn't want to wreck a couple of mechs. Thanks.

[Valbrona]

So I have something Campag did not make - a long cage Veloce 8 speed mech.

All of the Campag MTB RDs were 8 speed and long cage, like Record Off-Road, Icarus, Olympus or Centaur (then an MTB groupset). All of the Campag long cage 8 speed MTB RDs work with 8 speed Ergolevers.

[tatanab]

All of the Campag MTB RDs were 8 speed and long cage, like Record Off-Road, Icarus, Olympus or Centaur (then an MTB groupset). All of the Campag long cage 8 speed MTB RDs work with 8 speed Ergolevers.

I know, but I was cobbling together a mech from parts I had lying around rather than spending more money.

Talking about Campag MTB stuff, I have 3 Campag MTB chainsets in use. One from about 1991 which is on my hack and is very heavily used, and my most recent one was bought NOS in 1999 and is still all clean and sparkling.

[Mick F]

I have a good Chorus medium cage rear mech.
I say "good" but the top pivot is worn.

I retired it and bought a Comp long cage rear mech and I've wondered if I could fit the Chorus medium cage instead of the Comp long one.
The Chorus is bolted and the Comp has a circlip.
I'm waiting until I do some deep maintenance and I'm going to have a go at swapping them over though I'm doubtful that it can be done.

If you can hang on a couple of months or so, I'll get round to it.

[tatanab]

The Chorus is bolted and the Comp has a circlip.

No. In modern style mechs (by which I mean post 1980) I've only had ones with circlips. One day I chanced on a Record mech very cheaply so thought I might mount a long cage onto it. It was not possible because the internal construction of the lower knuckle is quite different.

[Mick F]

The Chorus mech has a long bolt holding the cage.

The Comp is like this:

[Keezx]

After 2000 orso there is a separation in rear cage:
Chorus/Record : Long bolt
All the others: Circlip
Both models are not mixable.

[Mick F]

Both models are not mixable.

I reckon you're correct ............... but I reserve the right to have a play and see for myself. Nothing is impossible, and you never know what can be done.

My Chorus rear mech is almost a scrap item, so I have nothing to lose by having a go at transforming it into the circlip sort.

[Keezx]

The top pivot is mixable though.....
The top pivot has a plastic sleeve at the inside which causes most part of the the play.
Unfotunately it's not listed as seperate p[art and not for sale.

[Mick F]

Not looked in the Comp yet.

Top pivot bolt on my Chorus is through a steel sleeve.

It's that sleeve that's worn, and not the bolt. Hence I can't fix it. If it was just the bolt, I could replace it.

[Brucey]

provided the steel sleeve isn't worn to a taper (they often are) then you can often improve matters (temporarily at least) by wrapping a few turns of PTFE tape round the bolt before you fit it. Obviously if you overdo it with the tape, the pivot will bind.

[A 'proper engineering solution' would be to ream out the sleeve and to fit a correctly sized bushing, but that is a lot of work, and there is no guarantee that the sleeve won't start to spin in the housing when you are trying to ream it.]

BTW I have found that wear in the pivots of derailleurs is much, much worse on road bikes that are run on narrow, hard tyres than it is on bikes that are run on fatter, softer tyres; everything is flapping about a fair bit more over every tiny bump with high pressure tyres.

cheers

[Mick F]

provided the steel sleeve isn't worn to a taper (they often are) then you can often improve matters (temporarily at least) by wrapping a few turns of PTFE tape round the bolt before you fit it. Obviously if you overdo it with the tape, the pivot will bind.

[A 'proper engineering solution' would be to ream out the sleeve and to fit a correctly sized bushing, but that is a lot of work, and there is no guarantee that the sleeve won't start to spin in the housing when you are trying to ream it.]

I never bothered with the PTFE tape idea though it did cross my mind. I didn't do it because it was fairly pointless due to the temporary-ness of it.

The steel sleeve is very thin. The spring fits into the assembly and locks at the far (outer) end. The bolt goes through the sleeve which is permanently attached to the outer end of the assembly. The whole assembly has to house the bolt and its attendant spacer, the sleeve, and the spring.

I doubt you could take anything off the inner face of the sleeve without severely weakening it, so I think the only solution would be to manufacture a new (slightly oversized) bolt and very very gently "polish" it to fit neatly in the worn sleeve. Even then, the sleeve is probably worn oval, so the whole idea wouldn't be any good.

Hence I retired the mech and bought a new one!

BTW I have found that wear in the pivots of derailleurs is much, much worse on road bikes that are run on narrow, hard tyres than it is on bikes that are run on fatter, softer tyres; everything is flapping about a fair bit more over every tiny bump with high pressure tyres.

Could well be true.

Maybe even with narrow HP tyres and a big/slightly overweight chap like me, the bike doesn't bounce and vibrate as much as it might.