"Cyclocross" parts specs.

[Graham O]

Hi,
After our run out yesterday, my friend and I are looking for bikes with a bit of off road capability and cyclocross frames/bikes sprang to mind. We are not going to be entering competitive events, nor wanting to replace mountain bikes. What we do want to do is have something which is a capable road bike but which can be taken down green lanes, towpaths, tracks etc. and handle gravel, mud, grass etc.
For myself, I will build it up from components, but it's a whole new world for me.

1) Wheel strength. I would have thought that 36 hole rims would be the norm, but most complete bikes seem to have 32 hole or less rims. We're not going to do anything technical, so how critical is wheel strength? Or would any quality set of wheels do the job? I'm 68kg, so not heavy.

2) Chainset. Cross bikes seem to all have a 46/36 chainset, but even with a 11-32 cassette, I'd prefer something a bit lower. (It's hilly up here in North Wales.) Shimano have various "cyclocross" chainsets with 46/36. Do Shimano have a 32 tooth chainring in their range or would I be looking at another supplier?

3) Shifter/brake levers. I've only used Campag shifters from some years ago. At the time, Shimano ones would only shift up or down 1 gear per click, unlike Campag which could shift many. Is this still the case? Very simple question, but I've been running with down tube shifters for years on my commuter/tourer/general purpose bike and have never really looked at STIs. What about SRAM shifters?

4) "Bottom bracket". What is the current state of play with regards external bottom brackets? Are they still short lived if the frame is not faced properly and regularly lubed?

5) 9, 10 or 11 speed? I've always gone for reliability and longevity, but having sold some radio equipment recently, I'm tempted to get something with a bit of bling and bit more modern.

Thanks for your help

Graham

[foxyrider]

My 'cross' bike is currently running a road compact with Campag 11 speed - the same as it did on my camping trip in August. The rear wheel is 28 spoke, the front 32 (it does have a dyno hub and disc brake!) The bike will cope with pretty much anything, even loaded it wasn't upset by dirt roads etc and the gearing will get me up anything in the Peak District - North Wales is no more difficult.

That all said the bikes you should be looking at are 'gravel' bikes - a road bike running wider tyres with lower gear ratios - all the big brands do them in a variety of guises, more offroad capable than a road bike, maybe more fragile than a true crosser - ideal for green lanes, bridleways etc

[mattsccm]

Spokes are generally 32/32 now but often less. Mostly gravel and you'll be ok on even 20's but I wouldn't.
Lower ratios will be easier to do with DRAM or Shimano as you can easily run a 32 t rear with road mechs. Run a road compact with a 34 inner and you should be ok. As far as I can tell you will only get lots of shifting with one hit with top of the range compact. My Veloces will shift up to 3 gears if going lower but only one if going up. No idea about the others.
Going for an inner ing below 34 is tough. Its either the inner two of a triple, a MTB chainset or something less common like Middleburn.
BB's are mostly nowadays external and using a MTB one would be fine. They don't last as long as square taper ones, all being equal but I don't see a problem with a 10 quid Deore one every 2 years. The are noticeably stiffer. The SRAM GXP stuff isn't know for being as robust so if you want to go SRAM use a Hope BB with adaptor. SRAM use the same shifting ratios for both MTB and road so mixing and matching mechs and shifters works , something that won't with Shimano.
Brakes are mostly disc now if you buy a new bike. Not to all tastes but generally great for the sort of use you. Cable operated ones are fine but hydraulics work even better. This type of brake is usually bomb proof. Most of us only touch our MTB hydraulic brakes to change pads. I haven't done anything else to mine since I bought the MTB 2nd hand in 2007.

[Brucey]

....For myself, I will build it up from components, but it's a whole new world for me.

1) Wheel strength. I would have thought that 36 hole rims would be the norm, but most complete bikes seem to have 32 hole or less rims. We're not going to do anything technical, so how critical is wheel strength? Or would any quality set of wheels do the job? I'm 68kg, so not heavy.

It depends how you intend to ride, how important you think weight is, and how heavy your rims really are. FWIW I think going to 28 spokes wheels on a 'touring bike' is just... mental.... basically. If you save the weight of four spokes that is about 30g, or about 4% of the wheel weight. Whether the wheels are still strong enough or not I can tell you that is 'bad value' in terms of wheel strength, the wheel will be a lot more than 4% weakened by having four spokes less than a 32 and same again vs a 36 spoke wheel. If you want to build light strong wheels then a light rim with loads of skinny spokes is the way to do it. Well-built 32s will be OK with the right rims and a good build, but well built 36s are going to be better.

2) Chainset. Cross bikes seem to all have a 46/36 chainset, but even with a 11-32 cassette, I'd prefer something a bit lower. (It's hilly up here in North Wales.) Shimano have various "cyclocross" chainsets with 46/36. Do Shimano have a 32 tooth chainring in their range or would I be looking at another supplier?

I think you would be best off with what would otherwise be called an 'alpine double' i.e. with (say) 44, 28T chainrings. Difficult to source, that.... Middleburn can do it but a budget option is to convert a triple (like the one from Spa) to a double. The outer ring position can be left empty or fitted with a bashguard.

3) Shifter/brake levers. I've only used Campag shifters from some years ago. At the time, Shimano ones would only shift up or down 1 gear per click, unlike Campag which could shift many. Is this still the case? Very simple question, but I've been running with down tube shifters for years on my commuter/tourer/general purpose bike and have never really looked at STIs. What about SRAM shifters?

shimano ones vary; most do (and barring just a few models have always done) multiple downshifts, one at a time rear upshifts. SRAM ones are different enough that you need to try them to see what they are like; not everyone gets on with them. Current campag ones are not as older ones were so again you need to try them to see if you are going to like them or not. Note that the current generation of shimano road STIs has a longer brake cable pull than previous ones which can affect brake options.

4) "Bottom bracket". What is the current state of play with regards external bottom brackets? Are they still short lived if the frame is not faced properly and regularly lubed?

they are improved (in the latest 'small installation tool' form) with better seals etc but they still are not as reliable as one would like. If you install them carefully and then regrease them often (not always easy) then they will last OK, but often not otherwise.

5) 9, 10 or 11 speed? I've always gone for reliability and longevity, but having sold some radio equipment recently, I'm tempted to get something with a bit of bling and bit more modern.

speaking pragmatically, what are you going to gain with 'bling' exactly? For that kind of use I'd choose durability every time. I might trade a little of that away for light weight, but not much. If you can get enough gears with 2x9 or even 2x8 then that may be a good choice.

Given that you are quite likely to wear rims out and/or bend them, I'd choose a standard wheel that you can rebuild with fresh rims easily should the need arise.

I'd also look to spec a bike that will accept mudguards if necessary, with enough clearance to allow off-roading too. Not many frames allow this and fat tyres.

If you were not worried about weight I'd suggest that you just get a touring bike with decent clearances. A left-field option is to build up a frame meant for 700C and to fit 650B rims in there with fat tyres. There are now MTB tyres in this rims size (this year at least) as well as few high quality touring tyres. There will be brake issues (with rim brakes) but there are options...

cheers

[Graham O]

Loads of interesting and thought provoking points, thank you. With regards what do I get from "bling"? The same as everyone else; nothing practical, but a nice warm fuzzy feeling.

My day to day bike is a Surly Cross Check and I'm looking for something lighter and more responsive. There's very little wrong with the Surly, but as it is configured, it's a bit heavy with components focussed on simplicity, durability and utility. This new bike is a bit of a luxury and I can accept some parts being less durable. Never having looked before, I'd not realised the bottom brackets were so cheap, so routine replacement isn't unfeasible.

For the frame, I'm thinking of a Kinesis frame with BB7 disc brakes. Most other things are still to be decided.

[foxyrider]

My 28 spoke rear wheel was not a choice I would generally have made but I wanted to run Campag with discs and the Kinesis cyclo X wheels are 28 spoke. I was dubious to say the least but a year of commuting, camping, fetching the shopping, off road riding and the wheel is still straight and tight. The wheel is also remarkably light so i'm well chuffed with it.
In this instance Brucey you are wide of the mark forthe OP's needs.

[Brucey]

if you take a small frame and you are quick (two left...)
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRPXUJV2/planet-x-uncle-john-cyclocross-frame

99 quid is a good price, even if it is a little bit heavier than some alternatives. Not very blingy though...

BTW if you are after a weekend plaything then anything goes, more or less. You could build yourself a 16lb CX race bike and it would work for the occasional foray, and be a hoot to ride I expect. Somewhere between there and about 6lbs heavier lies your bike I expect, depending on the compromises and priorities you adopt.

But whatever you build/ride the starting point (for me) would be the tyres.

cheers

[iandriver]

I'd completely forget Cylocross specific chainsets etc. Just put the gears on you want. I've built up my Kinesis Pro 5 be a do it all bike, and it is an absolute hoot of a ride. mine's built around 37mm Voyager hypers. If starting from new it would have disc brakes, but I had all the bits to build it up, so it is what it is.

Regarding bling, I don't know why, but you never see a "which finishing kit" thread. The small details can make or break a bike of you want it to be light IMHO. I'd look to cleanly spec your bike. If a "higher" group set means skimping out elsewhere, I'd seriously think twice.

Beware CX frames, some (such as mine) have do rack or even bottle cage bosses as CX events often only last an hour. This can come as a great surprise. Do check. Not insurmountable though:

[531colin]

Loads of interesting and thought provoking points, thank you. With regards what do I get from "bling"? The same as everyone else; nothing practical, but a nice warm fuzzy feeling.

My day to day bike is a Surly Cross Check and I'm looking for something lighter and more responsive. There's very little wrong with the Surly, but as it is configured, it's a bit heavy with components focussed on simplicity, durability and utility. This new bike is a bit of a luxury and I can accept some parts being less durable. Never having looked before, I'd not realised the bottom brackets were so cheap, so routine replacement isn't unfeasible.

For the frame, I'm thinking of a Kinesis frame with BB7 disc brakes. Most other things are still to be decided.

my colour

Winter is just around the corner.....wet salted roads and wet and mucky tracks destroy drivetrain parts and grind through rims faster than anything else, so "simplicity, durability, utility are just what you want..
Crosscheck is ideal for the sort of rides you describe mixing up road and tracks, the last thing I would be thinking about at this time of year is building up a blingy bike to get trashed through the winter and filthy tracks.
Just ride the Crosscheck for a bit on the trails, and you will know much more about what is important and what isn't for your sort of off-road riding. You may find that you hate getting muddy, or your riding pal does.
If you like riding trails on drops (I do) then you can treat yourself to a blingy bike for the summer....or o nice light job for clean dry summer days on road only.

[Graham O]

All points noted Colin, but this new bike is not for everyday use; that is the role of the Crosscheck. I appreciate that the Crosscheck is almost exactly the frame I want for the new one as well, but as it is, the Crosscheck has a rack, mudguards, dynohub, lights, rim brakes and is intended for a different use. I've done plenty of mountain biking and know the sort of conditions I am building this bike for. We are unlikely to ride miles of off-road trails in a day, but using the trails to link bits of road together. Getting muddy is part of the fun!


iandriver: A nicely spec'ed bike you have there. Just a shame it's the wrong colour.