Surly tandem(perhaps)

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FarOeuf
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Re: Surly

Post by FarOeuf »

reohn2 wrote:
honesty wrote:There is already a Salsa 29er tandem http://salsacycles.com/bikes/powderkeg I would think as it's a stable mate they don't want to step on each others feet. Saying that why not do a LHT based tandem? Maybe there just isn't the market in the US


The Powder Keg was another reason thought of Surly,and as you say an LHTT,why not?
It'd sell enough to make it worth while I'd have thought.



Surly and Salsa are owned by the same company, I think that's what the original comment implied.
MikeF
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Re: Surly

Post by MikeF »

mercalia wrote:How many tandems do you see ? I dont think I have ever seen one being ridden :shock:

Surly is a volume maker?
Tandems? pah. I passed one of these :o not that long ago. They were on an off road NCN track. Looked like Mum, Dad, and two teenage sons, but they were going the opposite way to me and I only realised what it was when we had passed.

I occasionally see people on tandems. They maybe less manoeuvrable than single bikes and therefore not used in built up areas, but as I don't own one, (although I know people that do) I don't really have any experience.
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reohn2
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Re: Surly

Post by reohn2 »

FarOeuf wrote:Surly and Salsa are owned by the same company, I think that's what the original comment implied.


I knew that,my point was that if Salsa can design one and feel there's gap needs filling,it's a short stride down the corridor to the Surly office to design a Surly touring/general use road/mild off road tandem :)

IMO there's a gap in the UK market at least,dunno about the USA,but it's a big place and Surly are a well respected brand.
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honesty
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Post by honesty »

It could be that, unlike in the US, Dawes has the touring tandem market sewn up over here. Maybe there just isn't the market size to support another competitor.
reohn2
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Post by reohn2 »

honesty wrote:It could be that, unlike in the US, Dawes has the touring tandem market sewn up over here. Maybe there just isn't the market size to support another competitor.


I don't think Dawes has anywhere near the tandem market share it used to.
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reohn2
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Re: Surly

Post by reohn2 »

MikeF wrote: .....They maybe less manoeuvrable than single bikes and therefore not used in built up areas, but as I don't own one, (although I know people that do) I don't really have any experience.


Unless turnings/chicanes are really tight tandems are as manoeuvrable,as solos and can be,due to their long wheelbase,ridden extremely slowly particularly when climbing.
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honesty
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Post by honesty »

reohn2 wrote:
honesty wrote:It could be that, unlike in the US, Dawes has the touring tandem market sewn up over here. Maybe there just isn't the market size to support another competitor.


I don't think Dawes has anywhere near the tandem market share it used to.


that I dont know, but I think Thorn have a pretty significant share in the uk (over 50% ?) and between them, Dawes, and Orbit, theres not much space for another would be my thoughts.
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Heltor Chasca
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Post by Heltor Chasca »

There's something about tandems that really appeals to me. But I've got to say I'm not sure I'd fancy being the stoker. I followed one for miles on the IOW last Spring and the stoker had her head near the captain's hips. I don't know how she held her head in a sideways position for so long without going crook. It also appeared she didn't get to enjoy the splendid views. What's the catch?
pwa
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Re: Surly

Post by pwa »

MikeF wrote:
mercalia wrote:How many tandems do you see ? I dont think I have ever seen one being ridden :shock:

Surly is a volume maker?
Tandems? pah. I passed one of these :o not that long ago. They were on an off road NCN track. Looked like Mum, Dad, and two teenage sons, but they were going the opposite way to me and I only realised what it was when we had passed.

I occasionally see people on tandems. They maybe less manoeuvrable than single bikes and therefore not used in built up areas, but as I don't own one, (although I know people that do) I don't really have any experience.


Try one if you get the chance. If you are used to solo bikes you will find it interesting. My Thorn tandem is the most stable bike I've ever ridden. Even at very low speed it is easy to avoid wobbling. It goes around tight corners easily, being no longer than a small car, and much narrower. And descending on a fast road is a dream. Road imperfections affect the handling less than on a solo bike.

Tandems are a niche within a niche, so you don't see many. They only get used when two people want to go out cycling at the same time. And the one on the rear has to be happy to have no part to play in the steering and (usually) the braking. In practice my stoker (the Missus) more often prefers to do her own steering, so the tandem has gathered dust.
reohn2
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Post by reohn2 »

Heltor Chasca wrote:There's something about tandems that really appeals to me. But I've got to say I'm not sure I'd fancy being the stoker. I followed one for miles on the IOW last Spring and the stoker had her head near the captain's hips. I don't know how she held her head in a sideways position for so long without going crook. It also appeared she didn't get to enjoy the splendid views. What's the catch?


That would be either a tandem with a short wheelbase or older machine,or she was on the drops,or she was tall,or a combination of any or all of those.
Due to oversized tubing available these days modern touring tandems have very long stoker toptubes with plenty of room in the stoker cockpit.
Older machine were much shorter due to the lack of o/sized tubing and if made longer were quite noodly.We had an early 90's Dawes SG twin that when we stamped on the pedals was quite whippy in comparison to the machines we have now.
Thorns are rock solid and long but very heavy,whereas the Santana and Cannondale we have now are both about 18kgs and stiff enough not move at all when the hammer is dropped.
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pwa
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Post by pwa »

reohn2 wrote:
Heltor Chasca wrote:There's something about tandems that really appeals to me. But I've got to say I'm not sure I'd fancy being the stoker. I followed one for miles on the IOW last Spring and the stoker had her head near the captain's hips. I don't know how she held her head in a sideways position for so long without going crook. It also appeared she didn't get to enjoy the splendid views. What's the catch?


That would be either a tandem with a short wheelbase or older machine,or she was on the drops,or she was tall,or a combination of any or all of those.
Due to oversized tubing available these days modern touring tandems have very long stoker toptubes with plenty of room in the stoker cockpit.
Older machine were much shorter due to the lack of o/sized tubing and if made longer were quite noodly.We had an early 90's Dawes SG twin that when we stamped on the pedals was quite whippy in comparison to the machines we have now.
Thorns are rock solid and long but very heavy,whereas the Santana and Cannondale we have now are both about 18kgs and stiff enough not move at all when the hammer is dropped.


Thorns are about 23kg (large size with the sturdiest "Discovery" frame), just for comparison. But that is only 11.5kg per person, on a heavy duty touring bike that can be loaded up with all your camping kit. Long at the back so the stoker (who can ride more upright, sheltered from the wind by the person if front) has plenty of space.
mercalia
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Re: Surly

Post by mercalia »

MikeF wrote:
mercalia wrote:How many tandems do you see ? I dont think I have ever seen one being ridden :shock:

Surly is a volume maker?
Tandems? pah. I passed one of these :o not that long ago. They were on an off road NCN track. Looked like Mum, Dad, and two teenage sons, but they were going the opposite way to me and I only realised what it was when we had passed.

I occasionally see people on tandems. They maybe less manoeuvrable than single bikes and therefore not used in built up areas, but as I don't own one, (although I know people that do) I don't really have any experience.


wow . just as well they dont have 3 kids :lol:
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kylecycler
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Re: Surly

Post by kylecycler »

mercalia wrote:
MikeF wrote:
mercalia wrote:How many tandems do you see ? I dont think I have ever seen one being ridden :shock:

Surly is a volume maker?
Tandems? pah. I passed one of these :o not that long ago. They were on an off road NCN track. Looked like Mum, Dad, and two teenage sons, but they were going the opposite way to me and I only realised what it was when we had passed.

I occasionally see people on tandems. They maybe less manoeuvrable than single bikes and therefore not used in built up areas, but as I don't own one, (although I know people that do) I don't really have any experience.


wow . just as well they dont have 3 kids :lol:

Not a tandem, but this little lady has six...

Image

http://bikeportland.org/2012/06/28/with ... bike-73731

Makes Heltor Chasca look like a big wimp. :wink: :lol:
reohn2
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Post by reohn2 »

pwa wrote:Thorns are about 23kg (large size with the sturdiest "Discovery" frame), just for comparison. But that is only 11.5kg per person, on a heavy duty touring bike that can be loaded up with all your camping kit. Long at the back so the stoker (who can ride more upright, sheltered from the wind by the person if front) has plenty of space.


We've had a Thorn Discovery(3x9sp deraileur model) 24kg,and whilst I can't deny it was nice loaded,it was a pig to wind up without a load,compared with any other tandem we've owned,which can't be the weight alone,as it slowed down quicker when freewheeling,than any other 700c tandem we've owned that are lighter,and that was with any combination of comparitive tyre and TP's.
The Santana which is a fair comparison is a steel touring tandem with V brakes and an Arai drag brake same as the Thorn and same 3x9sp d/train,weighs in at 18.5kg and will do any road touring the Thorn would,the Thorn scored off tarmac,with bigger clearances upto 1.75in tyres IIRC though we only ever rode it with 1.5inch.In fact the achilles heel of but the Santana and C/dale is clearances,only 32mm with M/guards fitted,thought the C/dale takes a 35mm on the rear.
The Cannondale 1kg lighter due to no third Arai drag,just two 203mm cable discs and no provision for a front lowrider rack.
Both are a delight to ride :) ,but the C/dale has the edge on low speed manoeuvring,over 5mph there's no difference.
The old S/Gal was a nice ride too but a bit noodly especial loaded.
The KHS childback is a surprisingly nice to ride for a cheap tandem and is fitted with some really nice wheels(40hole 26in Rigida Zac rims and Shimano tandem hubs),but suffers the problem as the Santana at very low speed which is due to a steep head angle and not enough fork offset IMHO,great on the move but mildly disconcerting a very low speeds.
I wouldn't want another Thorn,but then we don't do loaded touring any more.
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scottg
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Re: Surly tandem(perhaps)

Post by scottg »

honesty wrote:It could be that, unlike in the US, Dawes has the touring tandem market sewn up over here. Maybe there just isn't the market size to support another competitor.


By far the most common tandem here in the States is Cannondale.
With Santana and CoMotion taking care of the bespoke folks.
The owner of Santana makes Mr Trump look like retiring monk.

I rode with a Calfee tandem once, it weighed little more
than my single Atlantis all rounder.

Surly is part of Quality Bike Parts, the largest distributor in the States.
They own a lot of brands.
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