Hi vis jacket

[SteveHunter]

Hi Viz does not reduce the risk of injury.

If you get hit wearing Hi Viz the likelihood is you will be injured just the same amount as if you weren't wearing it.

Unfortunately there are no reliable statistics that show if you are more or less likely to be hit if you are wearing Hi Viz.

[TwoWheelsGood]

Unfortunately there are no reliable statistics that show if you are more or less likely to be hit if you are wearing Hi Viz.

Forgotten the source but I've seen one survey that claims it makes no difference whatsover at least during the daytime, and I personally believe this to be the case.

The only time it may make a difference is when there's very poor visibility/lighting and there's a vehicle travelling just a bit too fast for the prevailing road conditions, but even then it's really up to the driver to avoid hitting parked cars/the kerb/pedestrians/cats/foxes/etc. in the road, and nearly all pedestrians/cats/foxes/etc. won't be wearing reflective jackets. And I've seen a pedestrian walk into the path of a cyclist wearing such a jacket (in broad daylight) so it doesn't protect against absent-mindedness either.

Emergency service workers wear such jackets because they need to find each other quickly when working in a large crowd of people, but a cyclist on a road or path is just another road or path user. That's the difference.

[[XAP]Bob]

On railways the requirement is VERY DISTANT identification, since a change in direction is not possible and braking takes a very long distance.

Neither of which are true on the road, so the distance required for ID is much shorter.


Ignoring thinking a car will stop from 60mph in (HC defined) 181 feet.
Trains:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_BNod9GjzSZo/S ... 3small.jpg
So that's 1200 feet for a typical commuter train, and three times that for a freight train.

*that* is why high vis is a good idea on railways, and why railway high vis research doesn't translate well to roads.

[tim-b]

Hi

Outcome studies and perception-based studies have their flaws, and I really can't be bothered to read them all because of that

I ran a perception-based study (it takes seconds to complete) that came to the conclusion that if I felt comfortable and safe when cycling then I would be more likely to cycle. My outcome study concluded that if I cycled regularly then my weight and blood pressure stayed within healthy limits

My perception is that hi-viz is better than not. I wear it, I cycle, I'm healthier

Regards
tim-b

[BigFoz]

Personal feel, completely unscientific, observation based, is that Orange or pink Hi-vis is more visible than the yellow stuff. The yellowy green hv can blend into the background more easily especially in the open country. There's not much in the natural spectrum that's violently orange and big.

[SleepyJoe]

BigFoz said

There's not much in the natural spectrum that's violently orange and big.

A tiger?

[Vantage]

All my cycling gear is black including the helmet except for one blue jersey and most of my normal day to day clothing is dark coloured so in no way am I biased. But I will say this, statistics aside, no matter whether its day or night, bright or overcast, dry or wet, urban or countryside, its always the cyclists dressed in dayglo yellow or other bright clothing that stand out more than the ones in darker clothing.
The only reason I personally don't wear luminous bright stuff is because I think it looks ridiculous. That's it.
As for it "blending in" with the landscape and/or buildings? LOL. Aye, ok.

[beardy]

no matter whether its day or night, bright or overcast, dry or wet, urban or countryside, its always the cyclists dressed in dayglo yellow or other bright clothing that stand out more than the ones in darker clothing.

I agree that this is the case (though possibly not as 100% as you state it, possibly 98/99% of the time) but I have never failed to see any cyclist that was in my path or impinging on it.

[andrew_s]

The simple fact is,despite statistics,studies etc if a driver spots you earlier,then their is less chance of an accident.

That's what common sense says, but unfortunately common sense is very often wrong when it comes to statistical outcomes such as assessing whether you are more likely to be hit with or without hi-viz.
For example, it may be that having spotted you half a mile away, you've evaporated out of his consciousness by the time he reaches you, and because he's seen you before, his subconscious auto-pilot doesn't alert him, whilst if he sees you later, he's still thinking about you when he reaches you.

it is compulsory to carry-and use - hi-vis in motor vehicles in case of accidents

Which country are you in? No such requirement in the UK. .

Hi-viz in cars is compulsory in France, at least.

[stewartpratt]

The simple fact is,despite statistics,studies etc if a driver spots you earlier,then their is less chance of an accident.

That's what common sense says, but unfortunately common sense is very often wrong when it comes to statistical outcomes such as assessing whether you are more likely to be hit with or without hi-viz.

Quite. An analogy:

A pavement has a lamp post, to which is attached a projecting sign, at eye level. I need to avoid banging my head on the sign.

If the sign is painted dull grey and I notice the sign when I am 5 yards away from it, I step round it and I don't bang my head on it.

If the sign is painted fluorescent yellow and I notice it from 200 yards away, I step round it and I don't bang my head on it.

The difference in the distance at which I see the signpost has made precisely zero difference in this case, because in both cases I have seen the signpost in good time to avoid banging my head on it.

If, however, I am walking along while texting on my phone and not looking where I'm going then no matter how bright the sign is, I may well walk straight into it.

Obviously the parameters of that analogy are deliberately crafted to make a point, but the point is that it's perfectly possible for the earliness of being noticed to be completely and utterly irrelevant. (And this applies even in a generalised sense: it would be quite feasible to construct the hypothesis that conspicuity aids only adjust the point of being noticed from "early enough" to "more than early enough" and then test it.) You can't simply say "despite statistics, studies etc, X must be true because of some clearly flawed logic" (at least, not unless you're a registered homeopath). Wear hi-viz if you want, but don't go claiming it has an effect on risk of collision or injury unless you have some actual evidence and/or a robust logical proof that counteracts the evidence that's actually available.

[Si]

Cyclists are the worst people to ask about what clothing stands out - because we all actually look out for other cyclists no matter what they are wearing, it's the people that don't expect cyclists to be on the road that we should ask (including all the ones who see all of these invisible cyclists on every journey ).

I'm sure that many non-cyclists see lots of cyclists but seeing them and taking notice of them are two entirely different things. There is so much dayglo yellow around these days that if I am wanting to wear hiviz I would prefer a dayglo orange.

SMITYWABM



Sorry Mate, I Thought You Were A Bin Man

[The fat commuter]

... it's really up to the driver to avoid hitting parked cars/the kerb/pedestrians/cats/foxesetc. in the road, and nearly all pedestrians/cats/foxes/etc. won't be wearing reflective jackets...

Surely there's your proof that hi vis works then. I have never seen a cat or a fox get knocked over whilst it was wearing a hi-vis jacket.

Seriously though, when riding home from work tonight, I saw someone in front of me wearing high vis. They were actually wearing both yellow and orange and I think that it was the orange that caught my eye first. As I got closer, I realised that it wasn't a cyclist that I saw but a lollipop lady. Just measured on the map and I was about quarter of a mile away when I first noticed her. During the time that I was cycling the quarter of a mile I also saw quite a few school children wearing their black school uniform. They came into view much later that the fluorescent lollipop lady though.

I wear a yellowy green fleece jacket or T-shirt with reflective bands. Having seen that the orange caught my eye first, I may see if I can get a combination of the yellow/green with orange highlights (sleeves, collar, etc). No idea where I'll get them from though. My fleece and T-shirt are from Wickes.

[cyclop]

Thankyou for your suggestions,opinions,ideas,wisdom and knowledge.I have come to a decision with the help of these.I,m not ruining a perfectly good jacket,I am going orange,I will be using a gilet,well ,a bib actually.I bought a packet of these in a charity shop and they,ve been buried in a draw.They will do just fine..I,m off now............................................................................................................................can you still see me.

[Cusqueno]

I expect most people know, but, whatever the benefits of wearing high visibility clothing might be, they only work in daylight unless they incorporate reflective parts as well, This is because the hi-vis colours work by shifting light from the near UV or 'far blue' parts of the spectrum, where the human eye is not sensitive, to the yellow, green or orange wavelengths that we can see much better. Sunlight, even when filtered through clouds, has lots of near UV and so hi-vis clothing looks bright in daylight. The artificial lights around at night - street lamps, car headlights &c - are either designed to produce most light where the human eye is most sensitive i.e. not in the UV, or just do not produce UV. So hi-viz colours don't work any better than other pale colours at night, unless they have reflective strips or material woven in.

[Psamathe]

Some research:
The article about the research http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/2013/11/26/overtaking-cyclists/
The research paper http://opus.bath.ac.uk/37890/1/Walker_2013.pdf

I had decided to get a new hi-vis orange waistcoat and have "Video Recording" with a camera icon/logo printed on the back - as I'm getting rather fed-up and worried by the number of close passes I'm getting. And today I found a local shop that sells the vests and does the printing so I was actually searching for the best wording to use when I came across the above research - and it seemed relevant to this thread (in part anyway).

Ian