Doping culture still exists.

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
mercalia
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by mercalia »

makes quite depressing reading.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by Bonefishblues »

Listening on R4 this am - remarkable if true.
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TrevA
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by TrevA »

Apparently doping is endemic in amateur cycling. That's strange. My son is a national level racer, having ridden for several UK Pro-am teams. He's never come across it, apart from the odd rumour here and there. It may be case in some other countries but I don't think its true here.

Is this another case of cycling doing it's dirty washing in public, whereas other sports keep it under raps.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
wirral_cyclist
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by wirral_cyclist »

TrevA wrote:Apparently doping is endemic in amateur cycling. That's strange. My son is a national level racer, having ridden for several UK Pro-am teams. He's never come across it, apart from the odd rumour here and there. It may be case in some other countries but I don't think its true here.

Is this another case of cycling doing it's dirty washing in public, whereas other sports keep it under raps.


Would he really admit it?
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TrevA
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by TrevA »

To me, yes he would. And I would know anyway from his performance v training done.

However, there have been some dubious characters who are flying one week and crawling the next, or are head and shoulders above everyone else. I won't name names, but I know of only 3 Uk based riders who would even be under suspicion which hardly makes it endemic.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
Penfolds11
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by Penfolds11 »

"One "respected cycling professional" believes that 90% of the peloton is still doping, another put it at 20%"

Really? On what basis can anyone say that? We've seen from the number of Astana riders who failed dope tests last season that it still exists "in the peleton" but never to the extent of 90%, surely!

"The abuse of Therapeutic Use Exemptions, sick notes, is commonplace, with one rider saying 90% of these are used to boost performance"

Perhaps it was the same rider with the 90% wild guess...
Psamathe
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by Psamathe »

mercalia wrote:makes quite depressing reading.

In some regards with regard to cycling it does. But in other regards, as to the openness of the cycling authorities I find it very encouraging that they commissioned the report and them made it public. Compare to e.g. FIFA where there appears significant evidence of bribery and corruption (published by various sources), they have had an enquiry, refused to publish the enquiry, the author of the enquiry has "taken exception" to FIFA's published summary, etc. I have the impression there is a determination for cycling resolve issues rather than e.g. FIFA who just want to cover up problems and carry on "business as usual".

Ian
Ljaydee
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by Ljaydee »

"One "respected cycling professional" believes that 90% of the peloton is still doping, another put it at 20%"

If it said "One respected professional cyclist" and or named that person, the 90% claim would have some credibility.
Norman H
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by Norman H »

The conspiracy of silence, that prevailed during the Armstrong era, is perhaps understandable given the retribution that was dished out to anyone that spoke out but there were many in the sport who went beyond that Omertà and actively voiced support for the man. Many of these co-conspirators were, and still are, actively involved in the sport. The past leadership of the UCI, notably Hein Verbruggen and Pat McQuaid, are guilty in this respect and are criticised in the CIRC report but the ones for whom I have least respect, with one or two notable exceptions, are the journalists.

I believe Brian Cookson is an honourable man but, if he is to preside over a wholesale clean up of the sport, he will need to seek help from outside the UCI I think. In particular the various anti drugs agencies.

The Armstrong case is but the tip of a huge iceberg and I wouldn't entirely dismiss the estimate of 90% of the peloton still doping. There are some, I'm sure, who are hoping that this report will draw a line under what has gone on in the past but if the sport is to move forward and not repeat the mistakes of the past, full disclosure is needed, I would like to see an amnesty and the establishment of some sort of truth and reconciliation commission. Sometimes the only way to establish the truth is to accept that the guilty go unpunished.
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TrevA
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by TrevA »

Not read the report but much of it seems to be based on hearsay and opinion rather than proven facts. Maybe that's because it's very hard to prove doping. Interesting that Geraint Thomas says that the report is an insult to current riders.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
andy65
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by andy65 »

My suspicion is that the problem persists simply because what is expected of pro riders is simply too tough, particularly amongst the journeyman riders. The sport needs to be restructured, particularly there needs to be a rethink about the major 3 week tours. Should they be 2 weeks or should the stages be shorter? It may also have a positive effect on the quality of the racing as well.
Norman H
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by Norman H »

I'm not a big fan of enquiries. They are rarely designed to get at the truth. Their main function is to take the heat out of an issue, bring about closure and hopefully prevent further speculation. As shocking as the CIRC report may have been to some people, it didn't reveal anything that wasn't already known or strongly suspected. Given the narrow terms of reference the report does a pretty good job but the real weakness is that the commission had no powers to compel individuals to give evidence and indeed many refused to do so. Hardly surprising when that evidence may well have been self incriminating and there were no guarantees of immunity on offer. CIRC is a promising start and Brian Cookson should be given credit for publishing it in full but the real test will be where we go from here. I still believe that an amnesty is the best way forward.

There is a fair appraisal of CIRC by Nicole Cooke here.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/mar/11/circ-report-anti-doping-cycling-nicole-cooke

More disturbing reading here.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/100-tours-100-tales/2015/mar/13/circ-cycling-report-doping-depressing-ignored-women
fishfright
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by fishfright »

Tacascarow
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Re: Doping culture still exists.

Post by Tacascarow »

'How I became a drug cheat athlete to test the system'. Makes a mockery of all performance sports IMHO, if it's this easy then there's no hope.
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