ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

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Bicycler
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by Bicycler »

Si wrote:Regarding the commentary 'pandering' to Americans, I was under the impression that Liggett and Sherwin were working for an American TV company and that ITV4 bought the feed off them (this is why you never get any chat between the commentators and the pundits/presenters). Which might explain why it is American biased, if it is still the case.

Interesting. It's no secret that they do provide commentary to several English Language broadcasters and I remember Ned saying that the largest cheque came from the Canadian OLN - Outdoor Life Network (which, in what can only be described as a monumental error chose to dub itself the "Only Lance Network" :lol:). I don't know whether that means that they are employed directly or operate freelance but it is probably safe to say that it made a difference to how they dealt with the Armstrong saga.
I'm sure I recall that when Liggett was mentioning Brian Robinson's collision (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cycl ... 11074.html) a few days ago he said that all at ITV wished him well. Maybe the other networks were on a commercial break at the time?
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by Brucey »

I have always supposed that ITV pay PL and PS's wages but that their commentary is distributed all over the English speaking world, and is therefore adjusted to suit accordingly, because that is where most of the money actually comes from.

Regarding a previous 'pro-lance-bias' they should surely operate on an 'innocent until proven guilty' basis, if for no other reason than that they might be sued otherwise. IIRC they often did discuss various allegations made against him and others, e.g. the 'on another planet' headline etc . Again IIRC even this went down rather badly with the bulk of the overseas audience at the time; as messengers they couldn't afford to be shot, and you have to take that into account when judging their stance on things.

Often if you read between the lines, they do say what they mean, e,g. when they describe a performance as 'incredible' rather than 'superb' you may find a different meaning in there.

cheers
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Si
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by Si »

It may be that they do work for ITV now...it was some time ago that I remember Liggett saying that his commentaries were for americans.
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mjr
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by mjr »

I'm pretty sure there are occasions where P is taking to the "world feed" while P is talking to a specific channel, possibly to take them out of adverts or punditry. When both are occupied and ITV comes back, that's when we get Gary recapping, so I'm also sure that ITV isn't running things. Didn't there used to be a production company end cap? Maybe VTV? Then it'll be whoever owns that now, probably ;-) it looks like it might be ASO http://www.aso.fr/us/television.html
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi
Bicycler wrote:A continuous barrage of wattage and heart rate statistics would put me right off but YMMV.

Not continuous just on the long boring bits, what would you rather have there, make the tea I suppose :)
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Ontherivet77
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by Ontherivet77 »

Bicycler wrote:
Ontherivet77 wrote:However, Phil Liggett needs to go, his support for Lance was bad enough, but also his pandering to an american audience, bigging up the likes of Van Garderen and Horner etc. Also, if he refers to Association Football as Soccer again I'm tempted to throw the tv out the window. A previous post referred to multiple commentary streams for american channels which must explain him referring to the World Cup as the World Soccer Cup.

Lots of people of Liggett's generation and older refer to soccer, particularly those who were brought up in areas where rugby was popular. In any case, I don't see the problem with using language everyone understands. Wouldn't it be a tad arrogant to address a worldwide audience and refer to Association Football (or soccer) as "football" as if it's the only sport carrying that name?

FWIW, I'm heartily sick enduring the media's preoccupation with that sport. I find it annoying when newsreaders assume everyone's first language is soccer, eg. like the way that they refer to the England football team as England or Wigan Athletic FC as Wigan as if it's obvious what is meant by "England playing tonight" or "Wigan won yesterday".

As for Horner and Van Garderen, they are quite big names. Horner won the Vuelta last year. British TV's Team Sky focus is more blatant than any pro-American bias in the commentary.


My Dad is of an age with Liggett and he has never used the word Soccer. Soccer is just a nickname (derived from Association) in the same way that Rugger is a nickname for Rugby. Football is the world's most popular game so it shouldn't be too hard for people to recognise what you are talking about, it is also insulting to British viewers to have their national sport referred to in this way. The majority of international federations use the word Football in their titles, e.g. Deustche Fussball Bund.

I accept there is an over saturation of football. I live in Wigan and if someone was talking Rugby they would probably say Wigan Warriors or the Warriors, whereas the Wigan FC are referred to as the Latics, but if it's a professional sports presenter I'd expect them to use the proper name and on the news surely they introduce the Football results or the Rugby results, so you know what sport they are talking about.

As for the team Sky bias, so it should be if you are broadcasting to a British audience.


On another point I'm sure I've heard Ned interviewing in German.
Mark1978
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by Mark1978 »

He did an A level in German so it's quite possible.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
SKY sports news @ 09.25, roney scores 2 goals in man U 7 - 0 against galaxy, you see all seven goals.
Lampard goes to NY city :roll: "It's not about the money" in squeaky voice...........
Niboly and an angry cyclist with an oppossing fan.
Brad say's "The old guard is back together" sporting a convict hair do.
And finally a nine dart game.

Probably 40 % was footee...........................money talks
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PaulB
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by PaulB »

Paul and Phil broadcast to a variety of stations at the same time and have to match their comments to commercial breaks. The problem is each station takes its breaks at different times and the duo need to keep an ear out to when one station or another is leaving or returning. This is why you may often hear them repeating themselves so that viewers coming back from a commercial break can catch up with the action. You may also notice, by the inflection in their voices, that a station is about to go to a break but the one you may be watching doesn't! As already mentioned when we in the UK hear a lot of Paul Sherwen, Phil is doing a different feed to another station. They do this while watching a small monitor (not the huge flat screen TVs that many of us now have) in a small cubicle and listening to Race Radio in French! I'm amazed they can string any sort of sentence together.

As for bias; I do not want any bias in commentary. I watch the race as a grand event and am not really interested in just the "home" team. Infact I do not support the Murdoch sponsored team at all. I've stopped watching Formula 1 - a) because it has turned into a high speed procession and - b) the commentators' obsession with Hamilton.
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by Brucey »

PaulB wrote: ... I'm amazed they can string any sort of sentence together.
well they often don't... but I'm pretty sure they manage a lot better than most others would.

As for bias; I do not want any bias in commentary. I watch the race as a grand event and am not really interested in just the "home" team. Infact I do not support the Murdoch sponsored team at all. I've stopped watching Formula 1 - a) because it has turned into a high speed procession and - b) the commentators' obsession with Hamilton.


A high speed procession? Ah, twas ever thus... and I don't think it is possible to have unbiased coverage. I can understand the excitement with Hamilton, it seems like a long time since anyone (anyone other than Vettel, effectively) has had a decent shot at the championship.

cheers
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Bicycler
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by Bicycler »

They do this while watching a small monitor (not the huge flat screen TVs that many of us now have) in a small cubicle

Shall we have a whip-round? :wink:

Brucey wrote:
PaulB wrote:As for bias; I do not want any bias in commentary. I watch the race as a grand event and am not really interested in just the "home" team. Infact I do not support the Murdoch sponsored team at all. I've stopped watching Formula 1 - a) because it has turned into a high speed procession and - b) the commentators' obsession with Hamilton.


A high speed procession? Ah, twas ever thus... and I don't think it is possible to have unbiased coverage. I can understand the excitement with Hamilton, it seems like a long time since anyone (anyone other than Vettel, effectively) has had a decent shot at the championship.

Alonso? Webber? Okay, yes the past couple of seasons have been that way. Though if you look at the race as a whole rather than the team up front then there's probably more overtaking than there ever has been. I think brucey's right. I'm always wary when anybody points back to some mythical golden age of close F1 racing. Pick your golden season and actually look at the results and the 20 second winning margins we complain about were common. Go back to the 1950s and the margins were often minutes. As a fellow neutral I agree that it would be nice for other teams to get as much exposure as Mercedes and Red Bull. Have the BBC bothered to interview Mattiacci yet? Or Boulier? We get updates from Christian Horner every 5 minutes.

As for cycling, yes I'm uneasy about the way Sky are treated as a national team. At the end of the day it is a commercial enterprise which exists to promote a big (horrible) media empire. A minority of their riders are British, they don't go out of their way to select British riders for the most prestigious races and most British riders don't ride for them. I would appreciate greater impartiality.
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Dean
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by Dean »

Si wrote:It may be that they do work for ITV now...it was some time ago that I remember Liggett saying that his commentaries were for americans.


There are a few terms they use which make it clear they're not broadcasting to an exclusively British audience - "traffic circles" rather than roundabouts is an Americanism that I found a bit annoying.

Mostly I can tolerate Phil and Paul, and the annual tour of the churches of France, but they're actually really poor at doing their actual job of commenting on the race and the tactics.

The rest of the ITV coverage is very good. Gary Imlach and Chris Broadman could do all of the commentary, for my money.

The BBC were also broadcasting live radio commentary on the last bit if each day's racing. I can't remember his name, but the co-commentator was very good. Insightful and articulate.
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by mjr »

BBC 5LSX commentary this year was Simon Brotherton and Rob Hayles as far as I heard. I think Magnus Backstedt may have appeared a few times. The problem with the BBC coverage is that it comes dead last in their priorities and will be replaced by any tennis cricket or tiddlywinks that the have the rights to broadcast so you cannot depend on it.
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Dean
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by Dean »

Rob Hayles. That's it.

I agree, it took second billing to the cricket, but I like cricket, and listening to an hour of Durham v Yorkshire in the afternoon was no hardship for me before the cycling took over (Durham earned a battling draw).
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Si
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Re: ITV TdeF coverage; any good?

Post by Si »

IT has to be said that the commentators on the BBC coverage of the Commonwealth road races was a lot better than ITV4's commentary on the TdF. Chris Boardman and someone whose name I didn't catch - seemed to be a professional sports commentator rather than a cycling specialist but he knew enough to say sensible things and leave the expert views to Boardman.

This is in great contrast to the BBC commentator on the Commonwealth XC races who was appalling, and talked total rubbish through out the race. Initially I thought that this was just because he'd been bussed in to do it having never seen an MTB before in his life, but then he started talking about having a 'dale Leftie so I assume that he has some experience. The worst bit was when one ride cut across another - commentator made the usual comments about it being bad riding, then they showed the replay and the commentator came out with "I don't believe it, he's done it again!" or words to that effect. Then we had him state that no one rides full suss any more, followed by a switch to the studio where the bod there had a full suss bike and tried to explain how it worked without knowing the names of any components on the bike!
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