Final nail for Armstrong?

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
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horizon
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by horizon »

Si wrote:
BBC Radio 5 live Sport will have a special programme, "Peddlers: Cycling's Dirty Truth", at 19:00 BST on Monday looking at the whole Lance Armstrong saga, including a full interview with former team-mate Tyler Hamilton.


It's a clever pun on "peddlers" but it's only going to add to the confusion already prevalent on cycling forums.
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blaugrana
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by blaugrana »

Article on USADA report:
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/ ... ther-doped

Link to the report:
http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

Resignations at UCI would be good.

And a comment from Phil Liggett?
dslippy
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by dslippy »

I think some of this is being missed. Many top cyclists took drugs. Armstrong is uniquely a bully. What is worse is the weakness of the UCI (among others) in giving in to that bullying over many years, and then have taken to some of it themselves.
thirdcrank
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by thirdcrank »

I'm pleased with the way USADA has published all the evidence, rather than having endless legal and quasi-legal wrangling about procedures for dealing with it. (Although I don't suppose it affected USADA's approach, I did suggest this previously on one of the various threads we have had.) With it all in the open - we hope - everybody can make up their own minds.

FWIW, I can't see much point in faffing about with race results from those years. It would certainly be wrong IMO to declare other riders to be winners of this or that TdeF instead of LA, since some, many or all may have have been at it as well.
blaugrana
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by blaugrana »

Phil Liggett has commented
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/despite ... -supporter

and it doesn't get any better:
“If he’s been taking drugs then of course it’s right [to sanction] but they still lack the absolute proof as far as I’m aware. I still am a supporter of Armstrong. Whatever way we look at it Lance has been good for the sport. No one can condone, if it’s finally proved, that he’s ridden his whole career on drugs. I had an email from an eminent scientist from the US yesterday. An SMS actually. It said if Lance Armstrong had taken the drugs outlined by USADA he’d have been dead ten years ago. He’s an eminent scientist and a very intelligent man. I don’t know his name, the SMS came from a secondary person.”

An SMS from a third party, which forwards something from "an eminent scientist and a very intelligent man" whose name Phil Liggett doesn't know, trumps the USADA report!!!

This is pathetic.
dslippy
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by dslippy »

Is there anything true which can be said about the leaders of the different racing-cycling bits which isn't defamatory? I suppose you could say that in some ways Phil Liggott is a nice chap.
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Penfold
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Penfold »

UCI president Pat McQuaid said: "Lance Armstrong has no place in cycling. He deserves to be forgotten."

Titles gone and perhaps the court battles now start to recover monies paid to a cheat

The 'Legend' is over......Let's just hope that cycling as a sport can now get its house in order and any chemical cheats are thrown out for life. The UCI have to make it so its just NOT worth the risk.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by thirdcrank »

I wonder if McQ is thinking of having some sort of a leaving do.
Mike Sales
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Mike Sales »

Penfold wrote:UCI president Pat McQuaid said: "Lance Armstrong has no place in cycling. He deserves to be forgotten."

Titles gone and perhaps the court battles now start to recover monies paid to a cheat

The 'Legend' is over......Let's just hope that cycling as a sport can now get its house in order and any chemical cheats are thrown out for life. The UCI have to make it so its just NOT worth the risk.


Unfortunately this is not over. Quite apart from Armstong's future, the Italian police are investigating Dr.Ferrari.

Riiders belonging to up to 20 teams are said to be involved in what prosecutors in Italy believe is a €30 million doping ring organised on an institutional scale, with banned doctor Michele Ferrari at the heart of it. The Gazzetta dello Sport says that the inquiry, based in Padova, is “the biggest antidoping investigation in the history of the sport, well beyond Operacion Puerto.”


This from RoadCC report.

http://road.cc/content/news/69193-20-teams-dozens-riders-and-%E2%82%AC30m-italian-doping-inquiry-bigger-operacion-puerto
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Penfold
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Penfold »

Mike sales,

Thanks for that link to the Italian inquiry, the scale of which I was unaware of (I live in a draw in the garage) :roll:

So MUCH more to come, more heads to roll and perhaps the good Doctor is at risk of a hefty kick in the nads....

With Rabobanks withdrawal as a sponsor how long before the big TV channels also threaten to stop coverage of the sport, I for one am troubled to think that I cant watch a rider sweeping up some Col or other without thinking, "is he chemically assisted or not"

If I think that then what's the point of watching? Surely viewing figures will show signs of dropping off. Perhaps the huge amounts of money invested in the sport by TV or Sponsors is the biggest threat to hang over riders....After all, with this stupid 'rule of silence' amongst themselves it is THEY (riders) who are going to ultimately kill their own sport.

So it is the riders who must bring the change themselves........Have they the will? Is a 'tainted' title worth the ruining of your own good name? LA thought so, bet he would change his mind now though.
I keep my ideals, because in spite of everything,
I still believe that people are really good at heart.
- Anne Frank

There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England.
- Winston Churchill
thirdcrank
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by thirdcrank »

Penfold wrote: ... With Rabobanks withdrawal as a sponsor how long before the big TV channels also threaten to stop coverage of the sport, ...
AFAIK Team Telecom plus most of the German TV networks withdrew after Ulrich was exposed.
... Is a 'tainted' title worth the ruining of your own good name? ...

Or wrecking your health. :shock:
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bigjim
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by bigjim »

Surely to make him pay back anything you would have to sue him for the return of, whatever. Therefore you would have to stand in a court of law and prove guilt. I have yet to see any sign of proven guilt. All the supposed evidence is based on hearsay. As far as I am aware this is inadmissable in a court of law.
Also did the Americans not put pressure on the UCI over their acceptance of a financial donation from Armstrong? I don't think either organisation comes away from this with any honour.
blaugrana
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by blaugrana »

There are over a dozen witnesses who have said they saw LA dope, heard him tell people he doped, talked to him about doping etc etc.

What makes this hearsay?
Mark1978
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Mark1978 »

blaugrana wrote:There are over a dozen witnesses who have said they saw LA dope, heard him tell people he doped, talked to him about doping etc etc.

What makes this hearsay?


In court this would be eye witness evidence.
thirdcrank
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by thirdcrank »

Mark1978 wrote: ...In court this would be eye witness evidence.


... of accomplices.
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