Final nail for Armstrong?

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
Mark1978
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Mark1978 »

Possibly. But impossible to legislate for. Cycling just like many sports have the athletes not competing on a level playing field. Some will have better nutrition better coaching better training etc etc.

Indeed cycling below the top level where they always have the latest kit is devisive itself as who can afford to spend £7-8 on the best bike? Everyone is going to have some sort of compromise.
reohn2
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by reohn2 »

Brucey,Penfold
Spot on IMHO,LA is such a sad individual he's beneath contempt and so many others like the Suarez's etc of this world bring sport as low as it gets and similar to the to bent and sick politrickians bring the good guys down with them.
The LA affair casts a long shadow and causes me to look at every winning pro cyclist and wonder.Wiggo,Froome,Contador,etc,hmmm.......are they aren't they.......
The likes of Suarez has stopped me enjoying watching a game of footy,that same sickness is affecting my enjoyment of cycle sport.......one can but hope the bad guys aren't sleeping so soundly these days.

NATURAL ANKLING
That kind of training is natural.
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kwackers
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by kwackers »

Mark1978 wrote:who can afford to spend £7-8 on the best bike?

Me - and I have the cash burning a hole in my wallet!
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cycleruk
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by cycleruk »

You'll never know if you don't try it.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

reohn2 wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING
That kind of training is natural.

Training at altitude is natural yes.
But this is not possible for all, not enough room on the pist :)
Artificial climate houses tents etc are natural :?:
I see this changing in future.
This is well practiced for even in the Bordman years.
Just try and find any competing today to talk about it :?:
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Brucey
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Brucey »

FWIW it was made very clear in a recent TV documentary that wiggo (Sir Wiggo) sleeps in a reduced oxygen tent during training.

Eddy Merckx trained using what looked like a torture device; a breathing apparatus that provided him with reduced oxygen. He did this on the rollers, in his basement at home. He trained thus before his Mexico hour record, and maybe at other times.

Image

IIRC immediately after breaking Ole Ritter's hour record, one of the first things he did was to spark up a tab. :shock:

cheers
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LollyKat
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by LollyKat »

Brucey wrote:...spark up a tab. :shock:

Huh? translation, please!
Brucey
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Brucey »

'light a cigarette'.

Immediately after climbing off his bike he was too stricken, in too much agony to speak. I have seen film footage of this (in 'La course en tete' IIRC) and if he hadn't been held up, he'd have fallen down. Before he spoke more than a few words, he had a lit cigarette on the go!

There is a famous (infamous?) still photograph of this event somewhere; Merckx, graven faced, barely animated, supported from all sides by worried looking supporters, being helped across the track infield, has a lit cigarette in hand...

I spent some time trying to find this picture online earlier on and failed, sadly.

Merckx broke Ole Ritter's records for intermediate distances (which Ritter had made the subject of separate record attempts) en route to his hour record. After half an hour he was so far ahead of the record pace that his helpers urged him to slow down, lest he crack. He very nearly did crack; in the final few minutes his pace dropped away, not because he was coasting, but because he'd shot his bolt. He described the pain he endured as being the worst ever, and IIRC said that it was the reason he would never ride the hour again.

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by reohn2 »

Extrordinary!
I'm currently reading "Merckx,half man half bike" by W Fotheringham,a superbe writer BTW,and read about his hour record only last night! :)
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Brucey
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Brucey »

Re doping at the T De F;

As ever there is a wikipedia article;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France

Which, although goes into some detail concerning doping up to the Pollentier affair, and more recent events... is conspicuously silent on the topic re the 1980s. Cynics might suggest that many of the implicated riders from this period are still alive, and in positions of some influence. However read this;

Cynicism set in among both riders and officials. Jacques Goddet, organiser of the Tour from 1936 to 1987, said in 1999:

" I brought controls to the Tour in the wake of Tom Simpson's death in 1967 - and the riders went on strike. After the discoveries made [in to the so-called 1998 Festina scandal, see below], I feel real resentment towards the medical and scientific powers who deceived us for 30 years. The controls are almost always negative, which means that the labs have been making serious mistakes, mistakes that have only served to speed up the growth of this evil. The controls we developed after Simpson's death were a lie, covered up by the highest scientific and medical authorities, and I condemn them."


from the wikipedia page and you can draw your own conclusions.

Read this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

and draw some more.

It makes for some pretty sorry reading.

cheers
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Brucey
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Brucey »

latest news is that a bust has been made today in Spain. Former Pro and current 'nutritional adviser' to several teams, Jose Jimenez, and several others have been arrested, and a lab raided in southeastern Spain.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/news/road/former-pro-three-others-arrested-in-doping-ring-bust_272444

The mind boggling thing about this, which may betray the widepsread, almost industrial nature of doping in some areas is that they have allegedly retreived '300000 doses of doping products'..... :shock:

Meantime Merckx is 'disappointed'

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/news/merckx-extremely-disappointed-in-armstrong_271846

and although he says he 'didn't see it coming' he maybe isn't 'shocked' per se....

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by reohn2 »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING
That kind of training is natural.

Training at altitude is natural yes.
But this is not possible for all, not enough room on the pist :)
Artificial climate houses tents etc are natural :?:
I see this changing in future.
This is well practiced for even in the Bordman years.
Just try and find any competing today to talk about it :?:


At a tangent but sort of relative.
ATM I've been studying vitamin D3(otherwise known as the "sunshine vitamin") deficiency,(not cycling related but could be helpful to cyclists ).
It's recognised there is a need to suppliment the diet as over 70%(even in Australia)of the population especially in northern latitudes is deficient.It's benefits are manifold and thought to be the reason for dysfunctional Thyroid problems.
The UK government's RDA is 600iu and for older folks 800iu per day,though there are studies claiming upto 8,000iu being perfectly OK and beneficial,toxicity though not completely unknown is very rare.Overall benefit to the body is great though a Magnesium suppliment should be taken to help release/convert.
Is that natural?
Not:-please don't take anything above as gospel but checkout D3 deficiency for yourself.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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Si
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Si »

And still the fall out carries on...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/21240211
Brucey
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by Brucey »

The UCI are trying to smooth things over... yet again... instead of grasping the nettle.

Professional athletes are one thing, but when people doing what is essentially a souped-up fun run perhaps keel over because they have taken a stimulant that just hasn't been banned yet one has to wonder what the world is coming to...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/30/dead-marathon-runner-banned-stimulant-dmaa

all very sad.

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: Final nail for Armstrong?

Post by reohn2 »

Brucey wrote:The UCI are trying to smooth things over... yet again... instead of grasping the nettle.

Professional athletes are one thing, but when people doing what is essentially a souped-up fun run perhaps keel over because they have taken a stimulant that just hasn't been banned yet one has to wonder what the world is coming to...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/30/dead-marathon-runner-banned-stimulant-dmaa

all very sad.

cheers

I've mentioned this sort of thing before,a cat3(?) rider was caught with EPO in his blood some time back,it's the knock on effect of pro sport influencing some amatuer sports people,a sad day for sport IMHO.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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