Sleeping pads and bags - talk to me

[bainbridge]

Hi tourers

After 2 extremely enjoyable hostel and hotel tours in the UK and Europe I've now bought a more capable bike and am going to start going self-supported, so would really appreciate some advice on sleeping bags and sleeping pads.

Through Autumn and winter I'll be doing 1-2 nights out and back from my home in Bristol, up into Wales and back, so the weather is likely to be wet and cold. I don't have the luxury of being able to afford the absolute top of the range bag and pad but at the same time it's sensible to get something up to the job.

Pad: I've been doing some research before posting here and the Thermorest neoair xlite is the lightest and most comfortable, apparently, but at £100 this is out of my budget. At the other end of the scale there are £15 jobs in supermarkets (labelled festival pads) which feel at least a kilo in weight and I've no idea what they're like to lie on.

Can anyone recommend something in the £50 region? I'm 5' 10" with a stiff back and a side sleeper so need something quite thick, I don't mind a little bit more weight in return for extra comfort but obviously weight is a concern as it'll be carried on the bike. It must have good thermal insulation as I'll be camping in winter. Aldi are doing one at the moment for about £13 which apprently is very comfortable, but it's big, heavy and has no insulation.

Bag: I've decided to get a synthetic bag because the cheapest down ones in my price range have bad reviews and my cheap 1 man tent may prove to be not very waterproof. Can anyone recommend one in the £50-£60 range? Again, it needs to be really warm because I'll be camping in winter and I don't mind it being a little heavier than the super duper ones but weight will still be a consideration.

I've considered getting a cheap thick pad, a £50 sleeping bag and a couple of thermal blankets, putting one under the sleeping pad and having one in a pannier in case it gets really cold. I'll only be 1-2 days ride away from home so a bad night's sleep isn't the end of the world and if that's what it takes to force me to spend more then so be it, but I need to survive the night!

Any comments much appreciated, thanks.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Firstly all you need is -

Closed cell foam mat 10 MM thick. 8MM is a fiver, but up to 15 mm is possible / take two thinner ones.

Cheap sleeping bag 1.5 - 2.0 kgs in weight. £30 max

A winter tent is a double skin, with a NON mesh inner (except for a vent or two for air circulation) Most difficult to find a cheap four season tent one man light weight.
For the money £95 this two man will be good enough with minimum vents for a warmer night.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vango-Helix-2 ... 1c5693aa64

Stiff back see your NHS physio for an assessment, free too.

Sleep on grass, pitch on grass longer the better. Lay ground sheet / tent on ground and lie on it before pitching FIRST to get a comfortable site, even find a small hollow for hip.

Some will tell you need an inflatable
£150 sleeping bag of down
And £300 for a tent.

Anything other than naked you and a sleeping bag is a Ruse, any add on's are not as efficient as a sleeping bag of correct weight

[bainbridge]

Hmm thanks Ankling plenty to think about there; my tent is an Aldi £13 special with mesh inner! Was going to waterproof it but might have to have a rethink now..

FOund a nice bag on Amazon for £35, at 2.2kg it's a weighty fellow but apparently very warm:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Highlander-Echo ... eeping+bag

Regarding the sleeping mat I am actually after something inflatable, ideally 5cm. Aren't the days of foam mats over now with the advent of new technology?

[Vorpal]

I have a Vaude Tour that I like. It's self-inflating. I usually have to top it up, but it's easy enough to do. It insulates even if it's not inflated, it's 800 g and packs fairly small. I think that you could find that near your budget with some research.

I've tried camping without an insulating mat, and even in summer, the ground sucked all the warmth out my body I didn't sleep well, and I woke stiff and cold.

As for sleeping bags... I'm not sure. I have a Slumberjack that keeps me toasty warm, but I bought it in the USA, and they are rather more expensive in the UK.

Maybe you could just get a cheap winter sleeping bag from one of the warehouse outfitters, and if that's not warm enough for you, then get a nice liner for it, like a Thermolite Radiator? http://www.bergzeit.co.uk/cocoon-mummyl ... Country=UK The total will take you a little over your budget, but it might be the cheapest comfortable solution. The combined weight will probably be around 2 kg.

[irc]

Four season duck down bag £60 1.2kg. With a 500g down/feather filling you may need to wear clothes inside the bag to boost the rating if it's much below freezing.

http://www.blacks.co.uk/equipment/13369 ... g-bag.html

Folding closed cell foam mat. £9. That will do the insulation. If you want more cushioning get a cheap self inflating mat to go on top.

http://www.sportsdirect.com/karrimor-fo ... mat-782058

[Brucey]

I used to get on OK on a ~10mm foam mat but these days I use a self-inflating mattress (about 25mm or something) and the foam mat and I still don't sleep so well as I did. Getting old I guess! The mattress is a Karrimor one which seemed OK for the money I paid (about £25 I think).

A Brucey top-tip: If you put the 10mm foam on the ground directly, and then the tent on top of that, the tent groundsheet stays cleaner and lasts a lot longer.

If you are winter camping I think a better tent is a good plan; having a breathable inner tent where you can control the ventilation is important IMHO.

However when all is said and done you can't spend too much on a decent sleeping bag! If you buy the right one it'll last for years; buy the wrong one and you will just have night after night of miserably bad sleep. I use a thin sheet sleeping bag (a buffalo bag inner IIRC) to add 1/2 season to my bag where necessary.

cheers

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
There's not a lot that has changed over the years with insulation.
But the sleeping bag construction has and this is where the science is.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GELERT-FREEDO ... 1c51705dec

£29.99 and 1.75 kgs comfort at and below zero.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vango-Nitesta ... 2a51bd66b6
Vango budget at £37.99 and 2 kgs a better name and maybe more trusted, you'le be toast in that.

Now just sort your mat.

[Tacascarow]

Four season duck down bag £60 1.2kg. With a 500g down/feather filling you may need to wear clothes inside the bag to boost the rating if it's much below freezing.

http://www.blacks.co.uk/equipment/13369 ... g-bag.html

+2C isn't four season, -10c comfort is accepted as 4 season. & I'm not convinced that bag is all down, it says 60/40.
My advice would be keep your eye on the second hand kit here on the CTC forum.
CTC forum members have been more than generous with bits & bobs I've bought over the last couple of years.
I bought a very good multimat inflatable pad from one good member here & a nice kestrel softie sleeping bag from another. Neither cost very much.
The bag is only a two season rating but with a liner & warm clothes I can extend that. It's nice & light & packs small.
The mat is three season but an emergency space blanket under it to reflect heat makes it a four & the extra weight & cost is negligable.
I have a good vango synthetic three season bag that I would happily take on the moors in winter but it's not only weight with bags but bulk. Non Down three/four season bags take up a lot of space.

[gottogetfit]

This mat is the best mat I have ever used & serves my bad back well
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/hi-gear-ult ... at-p287149

My bag is a Rab Ascent that I am really pleased with but it's down.

[al_yrpal]

I carry a sleep mat sized roll of this which goes under my airbed and insulates it far better. http://www.screwfix.com/p/radiator-refl ... oCLnjw_wcB £5.99 a roll

Backpacker airbed with pump £10. http://www.halfords.com/motoring-travel ... -with-pump

Like you, I am a side sleeper and any mat is just too uncomfortable.

I upgraded to a multimat, this is better but you have to blow it up, but is more rugged. http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/ ... oCVevw_wcB

This is my sleeping bag, I took a long time choosing it. http://www.blacks.co.uk/equipment/12501 ... d-zip.html £85 but worth every penny.

So, you will end up with 1.07+0.5+0.28 = 1.85 kg total at £111.00 if you get the multimat and £10 less if you go for Halfords. The sleeping back packs incredibly small. Hope this helps

Al

[foxyrider]

I would invest in a better tent first and then upgrade the other kit over time. This works out better as you can save up for that Neo Air (brilliant bit of kit, I find it very comfortable) and down bag.

If you want to spend a few quid on immediate sleep upgrades hit Decathlon for cheap bags and even an inflatable mat isn't a fortune.

Money spent on a better tent will really repay many times over.

[hamster]

This mat is the best mat I have ever used & serves my bad back well
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/hi-gear-ult ... at-p287149

Definitely second that, used one this spring in sub-freezing conditions in the Mojave Desert and Sierra Nevada. Great value.

[simonineaston]

Some will tell you need an inflatable
£150 sleeping bag of down
And £300 for a tent.

on the other hand, I wouldn't be without my goose-down 'bag and my airbed! What does seem to have a major effect on people's ability to cope with varying conditions is age... I've progressed from sleeping on nothing (well, the ground actually - but you know what I mean), thru' closed cell foam, Therm-a-Rest, air-beds and now I'm at the stage where I get my best night's sleep on an airbed that's 4" thick!
Best advice if you're a cautious buyer is borrow kit, or buy cheap off of eBay and get out there and try it - see what work's for you. As NA indicates, what works for person A can be a disaster for Person B.
There's such a great range of kit available today that there's no need for anyone to be uncomfortable. A product that helped convince me that air beds are a practical proposition is this from Halford's at a very reasonable £13
http://www.halfords.com/motoring-travel ... -with-pump

[Barrenfluffit]

The general problem with cycle camping is that you have a few pieces of equipment but use them a lot. So its more important that something works well than its actual cost. Something more expensive can be a better solution than something cheaper that needs several items to perform to the same standard. Price is very different to value but if your going to use them enough durability becomes worth paying for.

Pads represent a tradeoff between packed size and comfort. Generally their pretty large. Airbeds ( which I find very comfortable) are cheap but surprisingly bulky. Inflatable pads can be a good solution but the cheap ones are bulky and you can pay a lot. The 3/4 length approach works quite well ( and foam pads can be cut down ) while using some clothing under your feet. I think the foam thickness / density is the key factor.

I'd go for a fairly thick pad, cut down and a cheaper sleeping bag with the idea of upgrading the bag if needed. In extremis I will wear multiple thermals, socks, hat etc. As these items are multi use it makes more sense to take a lighter sleeping bag and layer up than a heavier one which is only used at night.

[Vantage]

Mat. 5cm thick, 550g and packs into a smaller size than the thermarest I saw at the store. It doesn't self inflate in the least little bit but I can get mine up in under a minute without dying from exhaustion.
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz-air- ... 98497.html

Pillow. 10cm thick, 80g and packs up smaller than a coke can. Again, it doesn't self inflate and the valve is a pain to get air into but very comfy.
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/inflatable-p ... 55369.html

Sleeping bag. Here's where the mat and pillow come into their own because this thing is a monster in both size and weight. But very warm. I gave up using the compression sack as it squeezes the bag into a stupid square block which is a nightmare to get into my pannier, so the bag just get stuffed into the pannier on its own. Mine are waterproof so not an issue.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001 ... detailpage

I haven't got around to buying one myself, but I hear silk sleeping bag liners can add a few vital degrees in warmth. Next on my list.

I had a mad idea of using one of those cheapo foil survival blankets to line the tent floor in colder temps to reflect the heat but knowing my luck it probably wouldn't work
A lightweight tarp under the tent adds some insulation and protects the tents base also. £2-3 from asda etc. I'm surprised no ones mentioned that so far. Mine wraps around the tent in its bag when in storage.

Just over 2kg for the lot and around £70 all in. With the savings you can get a much better tent