Camping Cookware - Which Materials??

[pjclinch]

White gas does work very well... but in the UK at least it's relatively hard to come by and it costs a bomb. Better than gas in the cold excluding winter mix, well, yes, but there again most things are butane/propane these days so it's really not an issue.

That's why I recommended Aspen 4T: it is widely available from lawnmower suppliers. Pricing is much closer to petrol.

You learn something every day! And since I've just learned something, can I go home now?

Pete.

[pjclinch]

Thanks again for the conversation & input - this is a great site!!

Any thoughts or comments on this set up - http://www.gsioutdoors.com/shop/cooking ... loist.html

Could work nicely with a screw top cooker / canister system?
Seems quite well thought out and functional.

While it may well be a Feature in many eyes, I personally find the "a place for everything, everything in its place" approach to something as broad as cooking a bit constricting. Yes, you've got neat folding cutlery, but OTOH you've got contrived cutlery it'll be a pain to eat with, and yes you've got a neat handle designed for the pot, but OTOH it won't work on any other pot like a Trangia pan-grip, and so on.
And while I have nothing at all against non-stick pans, in practice they need pretty careful looking after to stay non-stick, and while a previously-non-stick pan is no worse than one that never was, is it worth paying the extra when you may not have the facilities and patience to treat it with apposite care (I'm quite sure many will have found keeping pans non-stick no problem, but do ask if you're one of them).
"Unique mug/bowl solution" may be neat, but if you want e.g. tea and cornflakes at the same time but not quite in the same place you're a bit snookered. It's neat stowage for the gas cylinder... but not if you want a bigger one because you're spending the next week in the middle of nowhere and it's more cost effective than multiple small ones. And so on.

Plus, at the end of the day, I'm not a fan of a can-top stove unless I'm in weight-weenie mode. These are all personal issues and all part of why I prefer a selection of Trangia pans, a Trangia pot grip and either the rest of the Trangia or a remote-can folding stove like the Primus Gravity Gravity EF or MSR Wind Pro. It doesn't pack away so neatly but I have a lot more cooking flexibility, and on a long tour that's something that would work better for me.

Pete.

[hamster]

I absolutely agree with you Pete on can-top stoves: fine if you have a picnic bench but a real pain on uneven ground. It's also difficult to construct a decent (high enough) windshield. Any breeze robs the heat from a dinky gas burner. If you want a compact can-top try Jetboil or the Alpkit equivalent.

Personally I like a proper mug: that low cup is nice in that it fits inside but shallow - so will have to be half full on uneven ground. That means it will be cold in no time.

The Trangia system is really hard to beat. Personally the slowness irritates me but it is a simple as you can get and has nothing to go wrong. Add a gas converter with a head converter for both common gas cylinder types and it's probably as close to perfect as is possible...

I'll often still take my MSR Whisperlite (just to be awkward) as it is better for cooking up food for 4 people in bigger pans. Gas gets used up awfully quickly.

[PH]

Any thoughts or comments on this set up - http://www.gsioutdoors.com/shop/cooking ... loist.html

I think a jetboil beats it on several levels.
If you're going to cook rather than boil stuff up, then you'll have to accept that the right tools are bulky if not particularly heavy. It's why many, myself included, often travel with little or no cooking kit and make do without cooking proper meals. In my case that's fine for a few days when I carry no stove, or a couple of weeks when I take a Jetboil. You're considering months of traveling, I think you'll get bored with the restrictions and limitations a reduced cooking set up imposes. OTOH - you're travelling in Europe so you're never going to be far from a camping shop, maybe you should stop trying to work every last detail out and accept that you can change stuff as you go along.

[PDQ]

Stainless steel is my recommendation. I bought a nesting billy set many years ago and they have survived everything.
They still come up almost like new (even after peat fire cooking) when cleaned with sand.
Aluminium has a funny smell when cleaned with abrasives (like bike rims in dirty wet conditions).
My old aluminium set looked as if they had been through a world war after ten years . The steel set, after a longer time, has hardly a dent.

[pjclinch]

The Trangia system is really hard to beat. Personally the slowness irritates me but it is a simple as you can get and has nothing to go wrong.

And the slowness is often something that management can abate. On one occasion I was setting up camp and after we'd got the tents pitched I watched a pal putting his MSR together and probably made some comment vis flamethrowers, which got him laughing at how slow my Trangia was and a challenge went out for the first to a hot meal. I accepted, much to his surprise, and to his even greater surprise won about a minute later, because my Trangia had been burbling away to itself for quite some time, unattended, while we got everything else sorted.
I'm almost always completely happy leaving a Trangia to its own devices, sometimes happy to leave a remote-can folding stove to its own devices, and I just wouldn't do it with a can-top.

You can get things wrong with a Trangia, and almost all of them are to do with refuelling. This is less of an issue with gas, but they're safe enough when they're going with spirit and once you've got the art of pouring spirit in (a good fuel bottle helps) and realised that just because it looks like it's burnt out doesn't mean it really has. Of course, any naked flame can bite (I recall an interesting fireball from someone shaking custard powder in to a pan next to an open Trangia...), but there's a difference between a Trangia open flame and a noob trying to prime an MSR with petrol for the first time while half-asleep!

The only time I've really regretted the Trangia have been snow-melting for a water source (which just takes forever) and very cold, when it's hard to light. Get around the latter by using a wick, get around the former by not going there.

Pete.

[JackRabbitSlims]

Any thoughts or comments on this set up - http://www.gsioutdoors.com/shop/cooking ... loist.html

I think a jetboil beats it on several levels.
If you're going to cook rather than boil stuff up, then you'll have to accept that the right tools are bulky if not particularly heavy. It's why many, myself included, often travel with little or no cooking kit and make do without cooking proper meals. In my case that's fine for a few days when I carry no stove, or a couple of weeks when I take a Jetboil. You're considering months of traveling, I think you'll get bored with the restrictions and limitations a reduced cooking set up imposes. OTOH - you're travelling in Europe so you're never going to be far from a camping shop, maybe you should stop trying to work every last detail out and accept that you can change stuff as you go along.

Thanks again for all the great replies.

The Trangia with Gas Burner addition is looking to be the likely choice. Many comments (not just on here) give it solid reviews and a worthy reputation

To the above bolded: - I'm traveling from NZ to Europe (probably Amsterdam) to begin a Cycle Touring Trip (my first one) which will be for months at a time......2 details that I want to have "down" before leaving is my Tent set-up and my Cooking System. I want to buy them both within the next month and start using them regularly over the coming summer months. Hence my attention to those details and asking of questions on this forum.
IMHO, it would be foolish to arrive anywhere and unpack Tent / Cooker for the first time having never used it. Those are two details I will definitely have worked out.

Thanks if you can help me out -

[hamster]

You can get things wrong with a Trangia, and almost all of them are to do with refuelling. This is less of an issue with gas, but they're safe enough when they're going with spirit and once you've got the art of pouring spirit in (a good fuel bottle helps) and realised that just because it looks like it's burnt out doesn't mean it really has. Of course, any naked flame can bite (I recall an interesting fireball from someone shaking custard powder in to a pan next to an open Trangia...), but there's a difference between a Trangia open flame and a noob trying to prime an MSR with petrol for the first time while half-asleep!

Having spent a week in Norway with no eyebrows I can attest to the dangers of careless Trangia refuelling.

MSR's system of a wee fuel pool in a cup is frankly dreadful. Coleman stoves are much safer in this regard. MSR pumps also crack eventually. A pal nearly burned down a friend's cabin in Australia due to a cracked pump which suddenly started squirting burning fuel around.

[andrew_s]

Anything can go wrong if you are careless enough. It's the necessary degree of care that varies.

The occasions I remember are...
A Svea 123 blowing its safety valve when running full bore under a pan of spaghetti intended for a dozen or so people, and giving a 4 foot jet of flame out the side;

Someone by the next tent changing gas canisters too close to another stove, and getting flashover when the new canister was only half on. I dashed over and hoofed it half way across the field (they were dithering), which put it out.

[andrew_s]

The Trangia with Gas Burner addition is looking to be the likely choice. Many comments (not just on here) give it solid reviews and a worthy reputation
I'm traveling from NZ to Europe (probably Amsterdam) to begin a Cycle Touring Trip

It will be worth getting the adapter to use CampinGaz unthreaded click-on canisters on your stove. They are much more common than threaded in several countries, including Benelux and France.

[pjclinch]

As well as the blowing yourself up aspect of safety there's the poisoning yourself with carbon monoxide issue. Over the years I've read various assessments of how much of a problem this is, ranging from so bad I've clearly been dead for years down to a non-issue, and the answer almost certainly lies at some point in between.

You're not Doomed if you cook inside, or lots of us would be dead, but there are sensible precautions I'd say it's prudent to take. Cooking outside as a default is the start point, and if you feel it's reasonable to go in (typically horrible weather with not enough alternative shelter, but I've been pushed inside by midges in the Highlands more than once) then make sure the tent, and especially the cooking site, is as well ventilated as you can reasonably manage (and make sure open flaps can't swing in over the cooker). Back to the Blowing Yourself Up side of things, an escape route for yourself and/or the stove (noting Andrew's football skills above!) just in case it goes wrong is worth thinking about. If the tent setup allows it cook in a porch and not in the inner, and in an all-in-one or fly-first pitch consider extending your effective porch by unhooking part or all of the inner. Remember that very hot pans and plastic-coated groundsheets or sleeping mats aren't a good mix.

Pretty much all tents and stoves these days come with dire warnings never to mix the two, but this is the legal department talking rather than the actuality of it's blowing a hoolie, pouring with rain, you're cold and wet and tired and a hot drink will make a really big difference. Think about how e.g. high altitude mountaineers get by and it's clear that cooking in tents happens a lot, even if Officially Frowned Upon. Having got familiar with both tent and stove before mixing them is a smart move, for sure.

Pete.

[PH]

I'm traveling from NZ to Europe (probably Amsterdam) to begin a Cycle Touring Trip (my first one) which will be for months at a time......2 details that I want to have "down" before leaving is my Tent set-up and my Cooking System. I want to buy them both within the next month and start using them regularly over the coming summer months. Hence my attention to those details and asking of questions on this forum.

Fair enough and I'm in no way critical of your research. But what happens if after a couple of weeks you think you could do with a bigger pan, or you don't need that kettle, or the cutlery is awkward to use or gas is a lot harder to find than you thought??? There are choices about your tour that could be a disaster, but this isn't one of them. I started a tour in Germany without cooking gear and after a couple of days decided I missed the morning coffee too much, it was cheaply and simply rectified. You're going for months, if you have the same ideas about kit at the end as you do at the start I'd be surprised. Some of it you'll be stuck with, some you can change.

[pjclinch]

Fair enough and I'm in no way critical of your research. But what happens if after a couple of weeks you think you could do with a bigger pan, or you don't need that kettle, or the cutlery is awkward to use or gas is a lot harder to find than you thought??? There are choices about your tour that could be a disaster, but this isn't one of them. I started a tour in Germany without cooking gear and after a couple of days decided I missed the morning coffee too much, it was cheaply and simply rectified. You're going for months, if you have the same ideas about kit at the end as you do at the start I'd be surprised. Some of it you'll be stuck with, some you can change.

This.

And with that in mind it's worth thinking about how adaptable a solution is. For example, a classic touring bike isn't as fast as a road bike, not as comfy as a town bike, not as capable off-road as a MTB, not as good for freight as a cargo bike, but it does enough of everything sufficiently well that the typical rider can take a much bigger range of stuff than any of the others on their own. Similarly with cookware: a Trangia might not boil water as well as a Jetboil, but if you want to share a fondue with a couple of folk it's miles better and you can still make a cup of coffee afterwards.

Having said all that, and further commending your research, I'll note that lots of folk seem to get bogged down looking for The Perfect Thing. The reality of the outdoor gear market these days is that though the Perfect X doesn't exist there's a pretty big selection of entirely workable stuff and you don't need to work too hard at it to avoid the duffers that there are (either plain rubbish or stuff that isn't right for what you want even though it's great elsewhere).

Pete.

[foxyrider]

As well as the blowing yourself up aspect of safety there's the poisoning yourself with carbon monoxide issue. Over the years I've read various assessments of how much of a problem this is, ranging from so bad I've clearly been dead for years down to a non-issue, and the answer almost certainly lies at some point in between.

You're not Doomed if you cook inside, or lots of us would be dead, but there are sensible precautions I'd say it's prudent to take. Cooking outside as a default is the start point, and if you feel it's reasonable to go in (typically horrible weather with not enough alternative shelter, but I've been pushed inside by midges in the Highlands more than once) then make sure the tent, and especially the cooking site, is as well ventilated as you can reasonably manage (and make sure open flaps can't swing in over the cooker). Back to the Blowing Yourself Up side of things, an escape route for yourself and/or the stove (noting Andrew's football skills above!) just in case it goes wrong is worth thinking about. If the tent setup allows it cook in a porch and not in the inner, and in an all-in-one or fly-first pitch consider extending your effective porch by unhooking part or all of the inner. Remember that very hot pans and plastic-coated groundsheets or sleeping mats aren't a good mix.

Pretty much all tents and stoves these days come with dire warnings never to mix the two, but this is the legal department talking rather than the actuality of it's blowing a hoolie, pouring with rain, you're cold and wet and tired and a hot drink will make a really big difference. Think about how e.g. high altitude mountaineers get by and it's clear that cooking in tents happens a lot, even if Officially Frowned Upon. Having got familiar with both tent and stove before mixing them is a smart move, for sure.

Pete.

+1 for all this.

In the summer i was holed up in the tent and my normally stable accomodation was all over the place so much so that using a stove inside would have been real folly! I relocated to the safety of the supplied outside dining area that was at least more sheltered. This was on Amrun off the German coast which normally has very clement weather.

I wouldn't consider a porchless tent as i don't want to cook in the sleeping area. My morning cuppa is usually brewed in the porch from the comfort of my sleeping bag!

[JackRabbitSlims]

I'm traveling from NZ to Europe (probably Amsterdam) to begin a Cycle Touring Trip (my first one) which will be for months at a time......2 details that I want to have "down" before leaving is my Tent set-up and my Cooking System. I want to buy them both within the next month and start using them regularly over the coming summer months. Hence my attention to those details and asking of questions on this forum.

Fair enough and I'm in no way critical of your research. But what happens if after a couple of weeks you think you could do with a bigger pan, or you don't need that kettle, or the cutlery is awkward to use or gas is a lot harder to find than you thought??? There are choices about your tour that could be a disaster, but this isn't one of them. I started a tour in Germany without cooking gear and after a couple of days decided I missed the morning coffee too much, it was cheaply and simply rectified. You're going for months, if you have the same ideas about kit at the end as you do at the start I'd be surprised. Some of it you'll be stuck with, some you can change.

Yes, i completely understand your point of view and I wasn't having a dig

I'm certainly not expecting to have everything perfectly set up before setting off and I know much of it will be a work in progress...... there will be changes made along the way.

My first bike tour will be a huge learning experience, but I'm a details kinda guy, I'm also a real "gear-head"and love doing the research in my spare time to find out which kit will work best for different scenarios etc.
If I think about what I was looking at in terms of kit last month, to where I am now after reading and posting on this site......the difference is quite incredible

Anyways - I'm slowly narrowing things down to what I'd like to have and will start getting it all together after Xmas when everything goes on sale here.

My Mum lives about 30kms away from me, so once I have my tent and cooker, I'll ride to her place, pitch the tent on her 3 aces of lawn and camp out for the night trying out all my gear etc. I know it won't be close to covering all the scenarios etc - but it's a start eh!

I'm sure with a Trangia 27 series with Gas option I can get by. If i need something else - I'll buy it along the way. If I don't need something that I thought I would, I'll try and sell it or bin it if it's inexpensive.

I'm also a coffee guy and have now moved on to the aero press and Porlex grinder which right now seems like overkill, more weight and bulk......I had assumed that instant coffee, and hot water would suffice, but perhaps i could include a luxury or two.

Thanks again for all your replies, suggestions and advice - it's a huge help.

Cheers.