Thorn in my side...

Please be fair and thoughtful in your opinions. No rants please.

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby leftpoole » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:58 am

Hell
As an owner of four Thorn bikes including two Club Tours I can honestly say that Chris Juden wrote a poor review of them. For instance he mentions toe overlap which does not happen with the Club Tour nor indeed to my knowledge any Thorn bike-unless you have big feet or more likely in my opinion the wrong sized bike! I was a rider of the same sized frame as Chris (533S) but changed to 555S. Neither bike has any overlap. In general the review was not how I have found Thorn bikes to be-far from it! The loss of a mudguard eye is a shame as mine all have them. Maybe it is to save production costs and to sell more Thorn racks which have an added m/guard eye.
PLEASE NOTE:- response from Andy Blance at Thorn (below).
Overall I think Chris and others should review the bike again and get the correct size.
John.
Last edited by leftpoole on Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
leftpoole
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Dorset.

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby fatboy » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:15 am

johnmac wrote:Interesting to see Chris Judden's recent review of the Thorn Club Tour - the phrase 'hatchet job' springs to mind!


I don't think that it was that bad a review. They do always tend to be negative. It seemed that he was responding to their somewhat overblown claims about the bike. Taking the toe overlap issue aside I think that not having proper eyelets for the rear rack and brakes that mean that you can't get a wheel out are things that I'd like to know about before choosing a bike especailly that was claiming to be the "best touring bike". Hubris perhaps?
"Marriage is a wonderful invention; but then again so is the bicycle puncture repair kit." - Billy Connolly
fatboy
 
Posts: 2952
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby leftpoole » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:41 pm

fatboy wrote:
johnmac wrote:Interesting to see Chris Judden's recent review of the Thorn Club Tour - the phrase 'hatchet job' springs to mind!


I don't think that it was that bad a review. They do always tend to be negative. It seemed that he was responding to their somewhat overblown claims about the bike. Taking the toe overlap issue aside I think that not having proper eyelets for the rear rack and brakes that mean that you can't get a wheel out are things that I'd like to know about before choosing a bike especailly that was claiming to be the "best touring bike". Hubris perhaps?

Hello
I think it was a perticulary bad review with no real positive slant. The issue of the extra mudguard braze on I agree with as all my Thorns have them,and I do not think the Thorn rack m/guard eyes are very good. I have lost three sets of SKS mudguards simply due to using the rack eyes! As to the 'overblown' claims, I think like all business they blow a trumpet just a little too loudly? The bikes are actually rather good.

? and brakes that mean that you can't get a wheel out are things that I'd like to know about before choosing a bike especailly that was claiming to be the "best ?
Not sure about the mentioned brakes but Thorn do not say the bikes are the best-they say that the customers say as far as I recall.
All advertisers use somewhat over the top attention grabbers to sell not only bikes but all sorts of things.
I reiterate that I think Chris Judden should get another Thorn that fits him and give a new review unbiased.

John.
leftpoole
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Dorset.

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby fatboy » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:51 pm

On their website it says "We say that the Club Tour is, not only very competitively priced but it is also the finest traditional 700c touring bike available anywhere, at any price!"

Now I'd love a bike of that quality and get the option to by a Thorn and yes it is marketing hype but the review if I remember right liked it generally just didn't think it lived up the the above bold claim, what bike could?

The reviews do tend to be a bit nit-picking about every bike they review (In stark contrast to Cycling+) but in light of that I thought that they were still actually positive about it with a couple of reservations.
"Marriage is a wonderful invention; but then again so is the bicycle puncture repair kit." - Billy Connolly
fatboy
 
Posts: 2952
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby leftpoole » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:03 pm

Hello
I still say that Chris Judden has it wrong! There is no toe overlap. This is a particular thing that Andy Blance the designer and Thorn are so positive about.
Regarding the overblown claim, I think that Thorn must have changed the view as it used to say in advertising that the customers said so, and in that case I think they are using artistic licence?
Its good to debate this from an actual real life owner.
John.
Last edited by leftpoole on Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
leftpoole
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Dorset.

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby Mick F » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:24 pm

leftpoole wrote:I still say that Chris Judden has it wrong! There is no toe overlap. This is a particular thing that Andy Blance the designer and Thorn are so positive about.


I have no reason to doubt what CJ says. How can he say there was overlap when their wasn't?

He said, in the article, " ..... found the resulting overlap between my toes and the front mudguard slightly annoying." If you look at the photograph at the start of the article, judging by the geometry, it doesn't look like he was wrong either.

I have no opinion one way or another about Thorn's bikes, and I don't care one way or another about their toe overlap. I just thought I'd chuck in my penny-worth.
Mick F. Cornwall
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
 
Posts: 29896
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:24 am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby fatboy » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:41 pm

The Thorn website definitely states no toe overlap. Mind you the pictures look like it might be tight. Now CJ must have experienced it so I don't know what's going on here. However I would still say that the report, on balance, was positive about the bike with a few reservations. The review doesn't read too different from the Super Galaxy review and my mate who has one loves it.

I would probably not buy this bike because if I was going to buy Thorn I'd go for a Rohloff one and if I was going to go for a bike like that I'd go to Byer Cycles who are just up the road and offer a similar mix and match approach which, if I was spending a lot of money, would like.

As a final note I do find the bike reviews in general a bit nit-picky. I think that knowing potential shortcomings is worthwhile so that they can be resolved before buying but they reviews never seem to tell you that it would be OK spending your money on the bike! Oh and BTW knowing what actual owners think of bikes is also very valuable.
"Marriage is a wonderful invention; but then again so is the bicycle puncture repair kit." - Billy Connolly
fatboy
 
Posts: 2952
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby Si » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:59 pm

I 'spose that it could just be that different people have different sized feet and set their mudguards up with different amounts of clearance.

Anyhoo, makes a change from the reviews in certain mags where everything gets 9/10 and the only consideration seems to be component stiffness - the reviewers being such good riders that they can feel the stiffness of every component on the bike as they ride along :roll: .

I have recalled the story before, but..... I used to know someone who wrote for a popular mag. When they got a bike in to review the standard process was to weigh it, quick spin round the car park, then find another review with similar groupset and wheels and just rewrite that review in their own words. At least with CJ we know that he gives the bike a good test ride before giving an opinion (or he lets someone else test ride it and confines his comments to the mechanics).
User avatar
Si
Moderator
 
Posts: 12388
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:37 pm

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby leftpoole » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:37 pm

Hello
I asked question of Andy Blance the Thorn designer. I copy his reply below with his permission.
John

Hi John,

I’ve been forwarded your email.



With regard to your allegation that we are cost cutting, by leaving the twin bosses off the drop out, you are completely in error…we have not left the double bosses off…the Club Tour frame that Chris Juden “tested” was an old model…built as a favour and at very short notice, for Dan Joyce, who did not even want a rear carrier on the bike.

Originally the Everest socketed dropouts only had one eyelet, I decided to use these in an attempt (successful, I may add) to reduce the incidence of RH chainstay fractures. I saw having only one eyelet as a lesser evil than a fractured chainstay. As soon as Everest started to produce the superb (and expensive) socketed dropout with double eyelets I specified them on the Club Tour and the Sherpa frames..



If you have posted incorrect information onto forums, I’d be obliged if you could immediately rectify the situation with another posting…you have my permission to quote me, provided you do not quote me out of context



Best regards,

Andy B.



Andy Blance
Designer
Thorn Cycles Ltd
91-93 St John Street
Bridgwater
Somerset
TA6 5HX
Tel: 01278-441519 (Int ++44-1278-441519)
Fax: 01278 431107 (Int ++44-1278-431107)

mailto:andyb@sjscycles.com
http://www.sjscycles.com
leftpoole
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Dorset.

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby Cunobelin » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:56 pm

When we ordered ours the frame stock was checked at the time, in fact the comment when I chose black for my Nomad was that it was a good choice as they had two frames in my size in black available, but were waiting for the green, and it would mean a delay.
User avatar
Cunobelin
 
Posts: 5173
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:22 pm

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby Gearoidmuar » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:40 pm

Whatever about the bike reviewed, I recently, tentatively, bought a Raven Nomad Tour. I thought it was maybe a bit expensive until I got it. It's an utterly fantastic bike. The fit, which I specified was perfect. The Rohloff hub and design of the frame was very impressive. I've been on two tours with it so far (I have it less than 2 months).
I'm not easily impressed but this was a most fortunate purchase. Everything about the bike is good. The handling, balance, brakes, wheels and THE GEARS, THE GEARS
Gearoidmuar
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:35 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland. Corcaigh, Éire má tá Gaeilge agat.

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby leftpoole » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:28 pm

Hello
Yes the Thorn bikes are great-no doubt whatsoever. But the CTC review was a mish mash! In my opinion of course as a biased owner of 4 Thorn bikes!
John.
leftpoole
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Dorset.

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby Mick F » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:52 pm

Hi John,

As a matter of interest, on your Thorns, what is the distance from the centre of your BB to the centre of your front hub? (With the front wheel dead ahead of course!)

I ask as I'm interested why CJ would say there's toe overlap and you don't.

Mine is 23 3/4 inches in old money, or 603mm in that new-fangled measurement on my Mercian. I have nowhere near any toe overlap. I'd hate to ride a bike with overlap.
Mick F. Cornwall
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
 
Posts: 29896
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:24 am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby Gearoidmuar » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:04 am

A saying springs to mind..!!

A pal of mine has a Dutch wife and has picked up some Dutch sayings from her.

In Dutch, if someone is a bit paranoid, or sensitive, one says "he has long toes!"

Step forward Kristoff Van Judden!
Gearoidmuar
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:35 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland. Corcaigh, Éire má tá Gaeilge agat.

Re: Thorn in my side...

Postby Jonty » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:41 pm

I don't have a Thorn but when I read the review I found it quite favourable. The thing which hit me between the eyes was the reference under the heading "The Rivals" to the Hewitt Cheviot SE. This read "Pay and extra £100 for better components (generally Deore XT) on an even nicer frame (in my opinion) with a similar custom fitting service. The down-side is a far less inviting and informative website than Thorn's."
When I buy a bike I want the money in the bike not the website!
jonty
Jonty
 

PreviousNext

Return to Cycling Goods & Services - Your Reviews

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest