Thorn in my side...

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Si
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by Si »

Not so sure - granted it would be fair or someone to state that their Thorn has no overlap, but to say that no Thorn has it is in need of supporting evidence considering some have suffered it on Thorns. One can't change the size of one's feet! And it might be possible to put the oot further back onthe pedal or do away with the guards - but then the bike starts to become unfit for purpose.
glueman
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by glueman »

I read somewhere that CJ takes size 7 shoes. I only remember this bizarre fact because I used be a 7 and grew to an 8 in the last five years.
If a toe overlaps a 'guard or tyre with a size 7, where does that leave those with bigger plates?
leftpoole
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by leftpoole »

Hello
I have size 9 Shimano shoes and my Thorns are all fitted with 28 or 32 mmm tyres and mudguards. I have not a sight of toe overlap at all. Bike size Thorn Club Tour 555 S Sherpa 560 S Audax 853 size 550 S.
John.
glueman
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by glueman »

OTOH the chance of Chris Juden making up the overlap is remote. I hope this isn't the start of an 'everyone should have a bike like mine' tendency on the messageboard. As I was once moved to remark of frame fetishism 'they're just a load of tubes with ends melted'.
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by leftpoole »

glueman wrote:OTOH the chance of Chris Juden making up the overlap is remote. I hope this isn't the start of an 'everyone should have a bike like mine' tendency on the messageboard. As I was once moved to remark of frame fetishism 'they're just a load of tubes with ends melted'.


Hello
In answer to the above question, NO its not. But Chris Judden had the wrong size bike. He was riding a bike which was far far too small!
That is the whole point of Andy Blance and his letter to CTC magazine.
John.
glueman
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by glueman »

leftpoole wrote:
Hello
In answer to the above question, NO its not. But Chris Judden had the wrong size bike. He was riding a bike which was far far too small!
That is the whole point of Andy Blance and his letter to CTC magazine.
John.


But to cope with the error the rider would have to take a shoe size smaller than a 7. Unlikely in an adult make where sizing begins at 6.
reohn2
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by reohn2 »

I've had two Thorn machines,one a Discovery tandem which was great for what it was intended for ie;kitchen sink loaded touring,unloaded it lacked zip in a big way in that it was a pig to wind up, not least due to heavy 26in 48 hole Sunn Rhyno rims (800grms) in all other respects it was great but as our kitchen sink touring days were behind us for various resons,after 6 or 7 years ownership we decided to sell it.

The Audax Mk3(bought as frame only) is hard to fault, at 23lb with an Ultegra gruppo DRC ST touring rims 28mm Gators,rear rack and full M/guards it isn't the lightest bike in the world,though you wouldn't think so to ride it.

Neither bike has/had toe overlap or indeed any vices.

Thorn IMHO sometimes run off at the mouth with their claims ie; best in the world,26in wheels are the centre of the known universe and Rohloff tandem issues,which in the case of the Rohloffs it has to be said they've put their house in order IMO.
If they didn't come across as being so cocksure of themselves they wouldn't make so many enemies.
All that said, from my own experience they do make some very good bikes,but then so do other people too.

As a word in Thorn favour when I was looking for a frame I phoned two wellknown manufaturers and was met on first contact by a couldn't care less if you buy or not attitude,the third stop was Mercian and when I totted up the VAT etc it was more than wanted to pay plus the clearances for 28mm tyres weren't enough IMO.
The Audax MK3 at the time was £299(now £350)+ £10 delivery,for that I got a frame,headset,BB,Seatpost,and every brazeon on the frame fitted with a S/steel bolt and washers,plus the assurance that if I didn't like the frame for whatever reason I could return it within 100 days and I would be refund my outlay in full.That was almost two years ago and I haven't been disappointed.
The other thing I like about Thorn is that they do actually tell you where the frame is made by putting a decal on declaring such,so at least they're honest,others let you find out for youself.
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Mick F
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by Mick F »

leftpoole wrote:..........Chris Judden had the wrong size bike. He was riding a bike which was far far too small!
That is the whole point of Andy Blance and his letter to CTC magazine.
John.
glueman wrote:........ But to cope with the error the rider would have to take a shoe size smaller than a 7. Unlikely in an adult make where sizing begins at 6.


Leftpoole
I ask again:
As a matter of interest, on your Thorns, what is the distance from the centre of your BB to the centre of your front hub?

Mine is 23 3/4 inches in old money, or 603mm in that new-fangled measurement on my Mercian. I have nowhere near any toe overlap. I'd hate to ride a bike with overlap.
Mick F. Cornwall
reohn2
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by reohn2 »

Mick F wrote:Leftpoole
I ask again:
As a matter of interest, on your Thorns, what is the distance from the centre of your BB to the centre of your front hub?

Mine is 23 3/4 inches in old money, or 603mm in that new-fangled measurement on my Mercian. I have nowhere near any toe overlap. I'd hate to ride a bike with overlap.


Mick
FWIW I've just been out and measured my Thorn Audax Mk3 and its 620mm =no O/lap
Dawes Galazon 625mm=no O/lap
Cannondale tandem 630mm=no O/lap
The most expensive bike I own Santana Arriva tandem current price £4000 fully equiped 585mm= O/lap certainly! but the thing is I've never had any problem with the O/lap issue,though to be fair we don't climb out of the saddle like a solo,that said we can turn it on a tanner! and it handles like at dream.
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Mick F
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by Mick F »

Thanks R2, lets hope Leftpoole comes back and say's what his are.

It would seem that 600mm equals no O/L, but less gives O/L. (as a ball-park figure)
Mick F. Cornwall
reohn2
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by reohn2 »

Mick F wrote:Thanks R2, lets hope Leftpoole comes back and say's what his are.

It would seem that 600mm equals no O/L, but less gives O/L. (as a ball-park figure)


I hope Leftpoole does answer you too it would be churlish of him not too.

As for the 600mm rule,I don't think its quite that simple,all the bikes I mention with the exception of the Dawes have 175mm cranks and I take size 47 shoes,If the Santana had 170mm cranks and I was size 43 or 44 I may just clear the M/guard,also worth noting is that the tandems run 32mm tyres with generous M/guard clearances.
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leftpoole
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by leftpoole »

Mick F wrote:
leftpoole wrote:..........Chris Judden had the wrong size bike. He was riding a bike which was far far too small!
That is the whole point of Andy Blance and his letter to CTC magazine.
John.
glueman wrote:........ But to cope with the error the rider would have to take a shoe size smaller than a 7. Unlikely in an adult make where sizing begins at 6.


Leftpoole
I ask again:
As a matter of interest, on your Thorns, what is the distance from the centre of your BB to the centre of your front hub?

Mine is 23 3/4 inches in old money, or 603mm in that new-fangled measurement on my Mercian. I have nowhere near any toe overlap. I'd hate to ride a bike with overlap.


OK!
Club Tour number one (Green) 600mm
Club Tour number two (Blue) guess what?
Audax 853 (Not the cheapo Mk 3) 600 mm
Sherpa (26" wheels) 625 mm
By the way I am certainly not churlish-whoever said that!
No toe overlap with size 9 SPD type shoes on any Thorn.
John.
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by glueman »

My latest Mercian KOM measures 590mm front centre, my KOM camper (26" wheel) is 624mm. A 531C Raleigh - also a very sweet handling lightweight - has 595 centres. With 25mm tyres, narrow guards, 170mm cranks and size 8 shoes I get a smidgen of overlap (smidgen = 1mm) on the Raleigh which could be saved with guard adjustment.

600mm seems to be the magic number unless you have feet like cross channel ferries. Small feet/shorter cranks/mudguardless types could get away with less. BB - axle distance does not itself seem to have a direct bearing on overall handling or feel.
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Mick F
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by Mick F »

Thanks Leftpoole - great to put the record straight.

What we need now, is to find out what the measurement was on CJ's tested Thorn.

Perhaps some scanning of the picture, and some computer measurements are in order, or perhaps Thorn could be contacted to set the record straight.

Either way, CJ says there is O/L and you say there isn't.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Thorn in my side...

Post by fatboy »

I'll try and remember to dig out the review of the bike as it should give the same measurement for comparison.
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