Ay-Up Lights

Please be fair and thoughtful in your opinions. No rants please.

Ay-Up Lights

Postby Neil Fat Man On A Bike » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:51 am

I bought a set of these lights when the nights started to draw in.
To say I am impressed is a huge understatement.
I went for 'The MTB kit' which comprised of two small LED's with a wide beam that attach to the handelbars and a second pair of narrow beams that strap to your helmet. These came with two 3 hour battery packs plus a 6 hour pack, an intelligent charger(plug in and forget, you cant overcharge them and you dont have to run them flat before charging either), plus a car charger and two sets of mounts. I also got the head tourch straps (extra charge) as well, and these are fantastic too.
The lights are in almost constant use these dark winter nights for bike riding, dog walking and I've even worked in them too. The 3 hour pack works for ages too, I'd say I've had them running for 5 hours and still had effective output from them.
http://www.ayuplights.co.uk/content/view/31/99/
The lights themselves are so small and yet the light output is incredible.
I would highly recommend them to anyone.
Especially since my veiw was backed up by MBR test where they gave them a perfect 10 out of 10.
The first night I used them I had a text from a friend saying how bright my lights are and how ' they'd burnt a hole through his curtains' as I rode past. :lol:
Maybe over the top for commuting but ideal for rural rides and even trail riding.
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Postby georgew » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:56 pm

£249 for the MTB kit!!!!!

Is it me or are we all going mad? I'm sure these are bright and do a good job but where does this stop? Surely some perspective is needed here.
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Postby kwackers » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:33 pm

georgew wrote:£249 for the MTB kit!!!!!

Is it me or are we all going mad? I'm sure these are bright and do a good job but where does this stop? Surely some perspective is needed here.


Some of us just want a bso to get to work or the shops, some of us are prepared to pay silly money for the odd weekend ride!

Each to their own I guess.

But look on the good side - the fact that some people are prepared to pay silly money whether it be for lights or the latest gear changing shinanigans means there are people who are prepared to do R&D to extract the cash from them and the technology trickles down...

You'll be able to buy similar lights in a few years for a quarter of that and will have the early adopters to thank...
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Postby Neil Fat Man On A Bike » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:16 pm

georgew wrote:£249 for the MTB kit!!!!!

Is it me or are we all going mad? I'm sure these are bright and do a good job but where does this stop? Surely some perspective is needed here.


Stick a candle on the front and hope for the best mate.
I live in a place where our main road is single track with passing places for 20 miles in either direction with stags and sheep all over the place. I want to be able to see whats coming! The average lights are ok for showing other road users where you are and cycling in towns but would be useless in comparison to these and what I do.
Yes they are bright, bright enough to stop oncoming traffic even in the daylight. Bright enough to keep riding off road at night throughout the winter on my local trails. When you work out how much they actuelly cost and spread that over the time I've used them they cost less than 75p per hour ( at the moment )and thats dropping steadily.
Or an alternative perspective, dont go out on a friday night for 5 weeks and they come for free. Some people spend tens of thousands of pounds on a car. Perhaps you should get some perspective. Has the world gone mad, no it was this bloody way when I got here. :wink:

EDIT
Ha ha pot and kettle here methinks, I just had a look at some of your other posts.......your quite happy to spend £700 on a rholof, eh well good for you, no need to knock my choices.
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Postby EdinburghFixed » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:44 am

georgew wrote:£249 for the MTB kit!!!!!

Is it me or are we all going mad? I'm sure these are bright and do a good job but where does this stop? Surely some perspective is needed here.


When I bought our Ay-Ups, I spent about £300 (I got an extra light head so that my girlfriend could have a commuter bar light).

I remember at the time I could hardly believe I was spending so much money, but I can't really say that I've regretted it. I can ride at full speed on the unlit roads in my commute, cars dip their headlights, we go mountain biking during the week because it's almost as good as daylight, etc. etc.

It also has a definite effect on motorists in town too. I don't know the exact mechanism but having a light which competes with car lights has really cut down on the number of stupid lane changes, pulling out in front, and so on - so it's an investment in safety too.

I must admit that it's a bit ironic coming from someone who's had a Rohloff hub - considering I'm off on an impromtu century today on my fixed-wheel!

Each to his own, I think...
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Postby georgew » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:27 pm

I take your point, but I'm not sure the comparison is a good one given the engineering involved in the Rohloff hub and its likely life-span (sadly sold on).
I realise that circumstances may dictate that an efficient lighting system is needed and it's true that we all make our own choices. Still it seems a lot of cash for lights in my view in that the components and the technology involved can hardly justify the price.
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Postby PH » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:37 pm

£250!!! You cheapskate, should have spent £850 on the Supernova X-7 :shock:
http://www.supernova-lights.com/newsite ... imate.html

Decent lights are one of the things that for me make a bike a viable anyday, anytime means of transport. Therefore I don't need a car, which makes everything else cheap.
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Postby kwackers » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:15 pm

georgew wrote:I take your point, but I'm not sure the comparison is a good one given the engineering involved in the Rohloff hub and its likely life-span (sadly sold on).
I realise that circumstances may dictate that an efficient lighting system is needed and it's true that we all make our own choices. Still it seems a lot of cash for lights in my view in that the components and the technology involved can hardly justify the price.


How much technology do you think there are in LED's?

It might not be as tangilble as a Rohloff but it's most definitely there. Billions are spent trying to make them brighter and more efficient, similarly battery technology.
Each generation of LED's is brighter and more efficient than the last. Good high brightness LED's are still expensive and until we reach a point where they're just too bright that's likely to be the case for a while.

Don't confuse R&D costs with the tangible costs of actually making an item. I work in an industry where the final product costs in the order of £8 million to make and can be copied onto a DVD, the world is full of people who think paying £35 for a copy is daylight robbery!

Plus, as someone pointed out, £250 is a few missed Fridays out.
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Postby Neil Fat Man On A Bike » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:33 pm

georgew wrote:I take your point, but I'm not sure the comparison is a good one given the engineering involved in the Rohloff hub and its likely life-span (sadly sold on).
I realise that circumstances may dictate that an efficient lighting system is needed and it's true that we all make our own choices. Still it seems a lot of cash for lights in my view in that the components and the technology involved can hardly justify the price.

Well as pointed out above by PH, these lights are actually very competativly priced when you see what you can spend, especially on the HID systems. In the lighting stakes, these are firmly in the middle ground and punch well above their price when compared to some alternatives. There has been a lighting revolution in mountain biking where lights need to be good enough to use for rough terrain and at speed. This also translates well to night time riding in rural areas where they excel.
Battery technology has come on tremendously over the past 10 years, just look at battery drills or mobile phones.
Lithium Polymer Batteries are pretty high tech. They come in two sizes, a minimum burn time of 6 hours for your bar or 3 hours for your lid. They have on / off switching and a single power output. Short circuit, over voltage, low voltage cut out and other smarts are built into the battery packs, each packed inside a watertight plastic casing for protection. Mount anywhere, neoprene pouches further protect and carry your light power.

Gone are the days that you have to conserve battery power. Depending on the conditions the batteries can still be outputting enough light to ride even after 2 hours past their rated life.

Low weight too, 3 hour weighs 82 grams (99.5gms with its pouch) and our 6 hour weighs 140 grams (158gms with its pouch)

Lights can be switched on and off, connected and disconnected, in the wettest conditions providing it is fresh or rainwater. The battery casings are waterproof to a depth of 0.5 meter. They are also designed to withstand a repeated fall of 5 meters to a concrete floor.

RECHARGING
These batteries carry their own "smarts" and unlike other batteries are fully protected internally with short circuit, over voltage and low voltage cut off. Our batteries can be charged at any state, be it 5 mins or 3 hours from full capacity for our 3 hour and 5 hours from full capacity for our 6 hour. Lithium has no memory.

Both batteries have approx 500 recharges, that's 3000 hours of light for our Bar battery and 1500 hours of light for our Lid battery.


So there you have it, chemistry and electricity, but at the end of the day SEEING is believing.
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Postby Neil Fat Man On A Bike » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:58 pm

I love it when you read reveiws after buying a product, especially when it just confirms your opinion
Here are a few quotes for you:-

mbr give our MTB kit a 10/10
"phenomenal value for money...the tiny size, weight of the lights and battery, ...... you have a sure-fire winner"

AY UP! Lights get a recommendation in Singletrack
"Bright and uniquely 'tuneable' twin beam light spread.
Good burn time"

Cycling Plus give AY UP! bike lights a 9/10
"a breath of fresh air in the lighting market.....
all in all we're impressed with these lights......
The AY UP Roadie kit is a gem of a light"
220Triathlon give AY UP! bike lights Road Kit a 9/10
"don't be fooled by their tiny size: these superb mini-lamps pack all the power you need....users say customer service is second to none, which adds even more value to the package."
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Postby EdinburghFixed » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:12 am

georgew wrote:I take your point, but I'm not sure the comparison is a good one given the engineering involved in the Rohloff hub and its likely life-span (sadly sold on).

I realise that circumstances may dictate that an efficient lighting system is needed and it's true that we all make our own choices. Still it seems a lot of cash for lights in my view in that the components and the technology involved can hardly justify the price.


I'm not so sure, although I can see why you might think so.

My laptop replacement battery is 5600mAh and costs about £90. The Ay-Up battery costs less than a third of the amount yet is 2500mAh, which is a favourable comparison.

When I made my own rear light from parts, it cost about half what the Ay-Up head did. But then it's larger, heavier, sealed with a hot glue gun, not aimable, and hard to transfer between bikes (requires unbolting).

The alternative might be something like the B&M IQ Fly, which retails at about the same amount as the Ay-Up head (but needs a dynamo, which means you can't easily transfer between several different bikes).

I agree with you 100% that in five years, we will have far superior lights for a fraction of the price (although the Ay-Ups are guaranteed for 10 years, and £12.50pa is not that expensive really).

But then is not now - the £125 unit cost of my bike headlight is offset by just one month's winter riding (the cost of the train is about £110pcm, driving even more).

So the question for many without lights should be, can you afford *not* to have good illumination?
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Postby georgew » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:04 pm

My point is nothing to do with how people spend their cash but how prices have risen for certain accessories. I look how the price of Brooks saddles has rocketed as a result of marketing hype (and don't tell me this is R&D costs) and despair.
I suppose the prices cyclists pay is a result of being a niche market.While R&D costs have to be met there does seem to be a premium to be paid for cycling accessories and yet the price of bikes is now proportionally lower than in the past.
I despair when I compare the price of things such as grease designated for use on bikes with that of synthetic grease used for cars or for an even more superior product such as Marine grease. It does seem that in many cases to produce something for bikes is regarded as a license to make excess profits.
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Postby Si » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:15 pm

I think that with the new wave of lights that it is not just price rises - they are much superior to the lights of ten years ago. Indeed, the cheaper LED lights are still a very good price and much better than the old EveryReady lamps.

Having said that, when Lumi HIDs first came out they were around £160+. Mine HID was from a quad bike maker in the States and was only £70. How much of that was down to it being a non-bike specific thing and how much due to importing fromthe USA I don't know.
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Postby EdinburghFixed » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:12 pm

georgew wrote:My point is nothing to do with how people spend their cash but how prices have risen for certain accessories. I look how the price of Brooks saddles has rocketed as a result of marketing hype (and don't tell me this is R&D costs) and despair.
I suppose the prices cyclists pay is a result of being a niche market.While R&D costs have to be met there does seem to be a premium to be paid for cycling accessories and yet the price of bikes is now proportionally lower than in the past.
I despair when I compare the price of things such as grease designated for use on bikes with that of synthetic grease used for cars or for an even more superior product such as Marine grease. It does seem that in many cases to produce something for bikes is regarded as a license to make excess profits.


With this, I can totally empathise.

I noticed in the shops today that four Muller Corners were on offer for "just" £2. Yet five years ago as a student, I used to often buy four for only *£1*. Let's just say I'm glad that entry level bikes haven't gone up by 100% in the same time period (or have they?)

Largely I think it is a result of the fact that more people are riding. This means that your joe bike is cheaper (bulk savings), but there is more room in the market to manufacture (and price up) 'premium' goods.

I mean, the fact that it is possible to make and sell a line of £250 bike lights is pretty encouraging, in that sense!
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Postby kwackers » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:35 pm

EdinburghFixed wrote:I noticed in the shops today that four Muller Corners were on offer for "just" £2. Yet five years ago as a student, I used to often buy four for only *£1*.


Our local Spar often sells them 5 for a pound as their sell by date approaches. Much more importantly they sell Muller Rices four for a pound...

Keeping the post on topic, with decent lights you can eat them in the dark without spilling and not worry about the battery life either!
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