VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
PH
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by PH »

pete75 wrote:Can anyone think of a logical reason the manufacturers decided to spoil a potentially excellent machine to save about 20 grams and less than 2 quid.


Until recently all Rohloffs were 32 spoke. But I think you're worrying unnecessarily, an undished 32 spoke wheel is considerably stronger than a dished derailleur 36 spoke wheel. If they're well built, and judging from the rest of the bike they probably are, they'll be pretty bombproof.
Last edited by PH on 20 Aug 2015, 10:56pm, edited 1 time in total.
pete75
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by pete75 »

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:Can anyone think of a logical reason the manufacturers decided to spoil a potentially excellent machine to save about 20 grams and less than 2 quid.


Until recently all Rohloffs were 32 spoke. But I think you're worrying unnecessarily, an undished 32 spoke wheel is considerably stronger than a dished derailleur 36 spoke wheel.


Was that anything to do with Rohloff's propensity to break hub flanges?
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
PH
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by PH »

pete75 wrote:
PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:Can anyone think of a logical reason the manufacturers decided to spoil a potentially excellent machine to save about 20 grams and less than 2 quid.


Until recently all Rohloffs were 32 spoke. But I think you're worrying unnecessarily, an undished 32 spoke wheel is considerably stronger than a dished derailleur 36 spoke wheel.


Was that anything to do with Rohloff's propensity to break hub flanges?


I don't think so, I've edited above, basically if you thought a 36 spoke dished wheel was strong enough you'll be more than happy with a 32 spoke undished one.
rualexander
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by rualexander »

Standard Rohloff hub is 32 holes.
If you ever have to replace the rear rim in the back of beyond, just dismantle front wheel and use that rim, and buy a basic front wheel from any bike shop. Had to do that once in the Western Isles where the lbs didn't want to touch Rohloff hub and didn't have the right spoke lengths for any of the rims he had in stock anyway.
Also, 32 spokes is plenty adequate for a touring front wheel anyway.
coffeedrinkerUK
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by coffeedrinkerUK »

I've admired VSF Fahrradmanufaktur touring and trekking bikes for some time they look amazing. I have seen a couple in use here and they look as if they handle well. The only thing that would put me off them, and I'm not one to get hung up on the weight of a bike normally, but have you seen the weights listed on their web site. I believe they ride fine but try carrying them up two or three stairs or anything like that particularly with a "bit" of luggage attached.
pete75
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by pete75 »

coffeedrinkerUK wrote:I've admired VSF Fahrradmanufaktur touring and trekking bikes for some time they look amazing. I have seen a couple in use here and they look as if they handle well. The only thing that would put me off them, and I'm not one to get hung up on the weight of a bike normally, but have you seen the weights listed on their web site. I believe they ride fine but try carrying them up two or three stairs or anything like that particularly with a "bit" of luggage attached.


Well would the weight be that different to any other loaded touring bike? For example the Spa steel tourer weighs 12.8 kg compared to 17.1 for the VSF TX400. Add a front rack, dynohub and lights to the Spa and it would be getting on for 16kg so not much over 1kg in it. With 30kg of luggage the TX400 would weigh 47kg - little over 7 stone and not overly difficult to carry up a few stairs.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
PH
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by PH »

pete75 wrote:
coffeedrinkerUK wrote:I've admired VSF Fahrradmanufaktur touring and trekking bikes for some time they look amazing. I have seen a couple in use here and they look as if they handle well. The only thing that would put me off them, and I'm not one to get hung up on the weight of a bike normally, but have you seen the weights listed on their web site. I believe they ride fine but try carrying them up two or three stairs or anything like that particularly with a "bit" of luggage attached.


Well would the weight be that different to any other loaded touring bike?


No I don't think it would. My Ti Rohloff touring bike, with rear rack (No Front), dynamo and lights weighs 15.9 kg. I think VSF weights are for the fully eqipped bike, when other quoted weights may be for the basic bike.
coffeedrinkerUK
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by coffeedrinkerUK »

Well would the weight be that different to any other loaded touring bike? For example the Spa steel tourer weighs 12.8 kg compared to 17.1 for the VSF TX400. Add a front rack, dynohub and lights to the Spa and it would be getting on for 16kg so not much over 1kg in it. With 30kg of luggage the TX400 would weigh 47kg - little over 7 stone and not overly difficult to carry up a few stairs.[/quote]

Ok yes that's a good point, but there are 24 to 30 derailleur geared touring bikes that weigh in at 30 pounds with rack and guards. Steel framed as well. I guess after loading up a bike and touring I see 30 pounds as a level I'm realistically happy to start adding bags and luggage and pump and lights and water bottle/s and lock/s .

I still think they are pretty amazing though.
pete75
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by pete75 »

coffeedrinkerUK wrote:
pete75 wrote:Well would the weight be that different to any other loaded touring bike? For example the Spa steel tourer weighs 12.8 kg compared to 17.1 for the VSF TX400. Add a front rack, dynohub and lights to the Spa and it would be getting on for 16kg so not much over 1kg in it. With 30kg of luggage the TX400 would weigh 47kg - little over 7 stone and not overly difficult to carry up a few stairs.


Ok yes that's a good point, but there are 24 to 30 derailleur geared touring bikes that weigh in at 30 pounds with rack and guards. Steel framed as well. I guess after loading up a bike and touring I see 30 pounds as a level I'm realistically happy to start adding bags and luggage and pump and lights and water bottle/s and lock/s .

I still think they are pretty amazing though.


Mmmm yes but are they serious so called expedition bikes ? Many wouldn't regard something with 30 derailleur gears ie 10 speed at the back as designed for long distance touring. Weight with rack - is that with steel front and rear racks rated at 40 and 15kg respectively? Then there's the dynohub and lights......

Having got one I think they're well designed, well equipped and well put together but amazing - no :?
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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syklist
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by syklist »

pete75 wrote:My TX400 arrived today. Four working days to get here from Germany. Well finished, well equipped with expensive high level components and seems well put together. One stupid peice of design spoils the whole thing - it's built with 32 spoke wheels.

<snipped>
As others have mentioned this is the standard number of spokes for a Rohloff. Now available with 36 holes too. The bikes are not spoiled by having 32 spoke wheels. Mrs Syklist and I have a pair of VSF T400s Rohloffs bought in 2008. We have not broken a spoke on them as yet. This includes two tours over 2000km in Norway and a tour from Gol to Lofoten, all with some gravel tracks, laden with four panniers plus this summer's tour when I towed our son in a trailer (+-35kg) on lots of gravel tracks. The bikes are currently running sub 17" first gears and the Rohloffs and wheels coped fine.
So long and thanks for all the fish...
pwa
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by pwa »

pete75 wrote:
coffeedrinkerUK wrote:I've admired VSF Fahrradmanufaktur touring and trekking bikes for some time they look amazing. I have seen a couple in use here and they look as if they handle well. The only thing that would put me off them, and I'm not one to get hung up on the weight of a bike normally, but have you seen the weights listed on their web site. I believe they ride fine but try carrying them up two or three stairs or anything like that particularly with a "bit" of luggage attached.


Well would the weight be that different to any other loaded touring bike? For example the Spa steel tourer weighs 12.8 kg compared to 17.1 for the VSF TX400. Add a front rack, dynohub and lights to the Spa and it would be getting on for 16kg so not much over 1kg in it. With 30kg of luggage the TX400 would weigh 47kg - little over 7 stone and not overly difficult to carry up a few stairs.


17.1 kg seems unnecessarily heavy to me. My Thorn Raven tandem (admittedly without the rack) is only about 23kg, and that is a strong touring bike (with Rohloff) designed to carry heavy loads. My Thorn Club Tour weighs about 13.5kg with Tubus racks front and rear, plus guards and pedals. I consider that a heavy bike.

And 30kg is a huge amount of baggage. I recently went touring with my wife and daughter, and my Club Tour was our only true touring bike. So I loaded as much as possible onto my bike to minimise the load on the other two bikes. Two full rear Ortlieb panniers (about 6kg each at most) plus two front Ortlieb panniers (about 3kg each), plus the odd item on top of the rack, and 4 large water bottles. And a bar bag (1.5kg?). This included our tent (Hillegerg GT4), two sleeping bags, 2 Thermarest mats and 2 heavy locks, plus shoes and some clothing. All told, about 22kg of stuff. If I had been cycle camping on my own I would have cut that to under 20kg. I see no point in carrying more bike and clobber than you need. Every kg needs a good reason to be there. My Club Tour, largely hidden by baggage, weighed in at about 38kg (including 3 full water bottles), and on the twisty, steep little cols of Provence I was glad of every kg left at home. I would find the idea of upping it to 47kg a bit daunting.
pete75
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by pete75 »

pwa wrote:
pete75 wrote:
coffeedrinkerUK wrote:I've admired VSF Fahrradmanufaktur touring and trekking bikes for some time they look amazing. I have seen a couple in use here and they look as if they handle well. The only thing that would put me off them, and I'm not one to get hung up on the weight of a bike normally, but have you seen the weights listed on their web site. I believe they ride fine but try carrying them up two or three stairs or anything like that particularly with a "bit" of luggage attached.


Well would the weight be that different to any other loaded touring bike? For example the Spa steel tourer weighs 12.8 kg compared to 17.1 for the VSF TX400. Add a front rack, dynohub and lights to the Spa and it would be getting on for 16kg so not much over 1kg in it. With 30kg of luggage the TX400 would weigh 47kg - little over 7 stone and not overly difficult to carry up a few stairs.


17.1 kg seems unnecessarily heavy to me. My Thorn Raven tandem (admittedly without the rack) is only about 23kg, and that is a strong touring bike (with Rohloff) designed to carry heavy loads. My Thorn Club Tour weighs about 13.5kg with Tubus racks front and rear, plus guards and pedals. I consider that a heavy bike.

And 30kg is a huge amount of baggage. I recently went touring with my wife and daughter, and my Club Tour was our only true touring bike. So I loaded as much as possible onto my bike to minimise the load on the other two bikes. Two full rear Ortlieb panniers (about 6kg each at most) plus two front Ortlieb panniers (about 3kg each), plus the odd item on top of the rack, and 4 large water bottles. And a bar bag (1.5kg?). This included our tent (Hillegerg GT4), two sleeping bags, 2 Thermarest mats and 2 heavy locks, plus shoes and some clothing. All told, about 22kg of stuff. If I had been cycle camping on my own I would have cut that to under 20kg. I see no point in carrying more bike and clobber than you need. Every kg needs a good reason to be there. My Club Tour, largely hidden by baggage, weighed in at about 38kg (including 3 full water bottles), and on the twisty, steep little cols of Provence I was glad of every kg left at home. I would find the idea of upping it to 47kg a bit daunting.


The Thorn Nomad tested by Cycle in 2010 weighed 16.5kgs in pretty much the same spec as the Fahrrad TX400 but without lights. Equip the Thorn with an identical dynohub and lights and the weight of the two machines would be almost identical

The Fahrrad TX400 and the Nomad are both expedition bikes designed for cycle touring almost anywhere. Andy Blanche designer of the Nomad as well as your Thorns describes such bikes as sometimes having to carry a weeks supply of food and water along with everything else. Given this requirement they could well have to carry more than 30kg.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
PH
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by PH »

pete75 wrote:Having got one I think they're well designed, well equipped and well put together but amazing - no :?


That's pretty much how I felt about my Thorn Raven, untill I loaded it up and used it for it's designed purpose, in the end though it wasn't worth keeping for the little use it got like that.
pwa
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by pwa »

I suppose it is horses for courses. I love the quiet mountain roads of France, and for that a 700c tourer like mine is spot on. And 20kg of baggage is all you will have to carry, unless you are carrying a bit extra for companions who cannot carry so much. If your scene involves jetting off to more remote parts of the world you may need to carry more. I take that point.
pete75
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Re: VSF Fahrradmanufaktur

Post by pete75 »

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:Having got one I think they're well designed, well equipped and well put together but amazing - no :?


That's pretty much how I felt about my Thorn Raven, untill I loaded it up and used it for it's designed purpose, in the end though it wasn't worth keeping for the little use it got like that.


What you mean it wasn't much good when you loaded it up??
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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