car hire v train prices

[simonhill]

No one has mentioned the need to get a code from the DVLA to back up your (photo) licence before you can hire a car.

Can't remember the details, but it seems to be a pain.

I still have a greenn paper licence, so don't think I can hire at all.

[RickH]

No one has mentioned the need to get a code from the DVLA to back up your (photo) licence before you can hire a car.

Can't remember the details, but it seems to be a pain.

I still have a greenn paper licence, so don't think I can hire at all.

Hiring cars
They've just relaxed the rules - the driving licence code will now be valid for 3 weeks instead of 3 days. Many places overseas won't ask for it though, by all accounts (link on BBC News website from 10 July).

I've never had trouble hiring a car - in the UK, Europe or North America - with my green paper licence (issued when we last moved house in 1983), although haven't tried do so for about 3 or 4 years now.

Bikes on trains
I take my tandem on the train nearly every week (& often more than once a week at the moment) & the virtually the only problem I have is with occasional missed connections (which would happen whether I had a bike or not). It does help that it is a Circe Helios with 20" wheels which means it is quite a bit shorter for manoeuvring it on & off trains (removing the stoker bars helps too for getting it round corners on trains).

Checking split ticketing is a good idea. When I was going from Bolton to Lowestoft once it saved more than 50% to just get an advance ticket from Manchester to Norwich (where I had to change anyway) & pay the local fares (tickets bought at the same time as the cheap ticket) for the legs at each end.

Checking tickets to other nearby stations if you are just going for "walk on" fares can save you money as well - a frequent off-peak return journey for me is Wigan to Chester but getting a return from Wigan to Ellesmere Port is over £5 cheaper (£12.00 v £17.60 & going via Chester is a legitimate route).

Rick.

[mjr]

If I were to get from somewhere to somewhere and take my bike, the last thing I would do would be to use the train.
I've done it a couple of times, but no more. The hassle just isn't worth it.

I think I do it most months and it seems less hassle than hire car roulette, roadworks, crashes, traffic jams, hunt-the-parking-space and so on. If you're going between the hinterland and the back of beyond then a car will probably be easier, but it's fairly awful in the populated places these days.

The trains mostly work but I think I'd always take the folder if I want to be pretty certain of getting places on time, I would remain with any bike that I cared about (because Fred with his pub bike will just throw it into the bike spaces if no-one is around) and I'd always try to avoid the last possible train for a journey, in order to give myself an obvious alternative plan if needed... but then I wouldn't leave home in a car at exactly the latest sat-nav-predicted possible departure time either.

[Mick F]

Just imagine trying to get you AND your bike onto a packed train. It is sometimes hard enough to get YOU on, but it's just possible that the bike stowage is jammed packed and it's impossible - even though you've pre-booked your bike - to get your bike on board.

Possible?
Pessimistic?
Realistic?

or never happens?

Personally, I wouldn't take the risk again.

[robing]

I've used the train in the UK many times for bike trips with no problems. It's particularly useful when you have different start and end points. I used it for c2c, Lejog, docap. I find travelling by train much more relaxing than driving.

[PH]

Just imagine trying to get you AND your bike onto a packed train. It is sometimes hard enough to get YOU on, but it's just possible that the bike stowage is jammed packed and it's impossible - even though you've pre-booked your bike - to get your bike on board.

Possible?
Pessimistic?
Realistic?

or never happens?

Personally, I wouldn't take the risk again.

Imagine avoiding the packed train, is isn't hard to do...
No one said the train was always going to be suitable for every journey, but the idea that it's therefore never suitable for any I find absurd. I don't need to imagine anything, I like thousands of others use the train with a bike every week. Some people do it every day, imagine that!

[RJS]

Taking the bike on a train is an appealing idea, and I see quite a few people on the forum do it, but like Mick F I worry , am I right that it's only 2 bikes per train? what happens if 3 or 4 people want to take a bike on the same train, has that not happened to any of you regular users? Someone also suggested to me that if a wheel chair user needs the space you can be made to leave the train, just an old wives tale?
Cheers, Rob.

[RickH]

Taking the bike on a train is an appealing idea, and I see quite a few people on the forum do it, but like Mick F I worry , am I right that it's only 2 bikes per train? what happens if 3 or 4 people want to take a bike on the same train, has that not happened to any of you regular users? Someone also suggested to me that if a wheel chair user needs the space you can be made to leave the train, just an old wives tale?
Cheers, Rob.

Virgin West Coast need a reservation (unless you arrive after the ticket office has closed). There's one guy at Warrington who's sometimes a bit of a stickler for the booking rules but the others are more accommodating and will try to get you on an earlier train if you've otherwise got a long wait (there are some - 10 coach Voyagers, basically 2 trains joined together - where only half of the actual spaces are actually bookable. In over 12 months of weekly trips I've only had to wait a significant amount of time to get on a Virgin train on 2 or 3 occasions.

Arriva Wales, Northern & Merseyrail are other operators I use regulalry and all seem pretty laid back. I've had 3 bikes along with my tandem in the 2 spaces plus several other bikes elsewhere on the North Wales train & none of the staff seemed particularly bothered. The most bother, if you can call it that, I get with the tandem is the continual questions about the beast!

The bike spaces are usually separate from the wheelchair spaces, often in a different carriage in all but the shortest trains.

Rick.

[mjr]

Taking the bike on a train is an appealing idea, and I see quite a few people on the forum do it, but like Mick F I worry , am I right that it's only 2 bikes per train?

Not always. It varies by train type (or sometimes train company). http://www.atob.org.uk do a fairly good job of summarising, although the train company own websites may be more up-to-date if you can find it on there.

what happens if 3 or 4 people want to take a bike on the same train, has that not happened to any of you regular users?

Yes. Usually we just fit them in as best we can. I've been on trains with a dozen or more. There is the possibility of Mr Awkward enforcing any bike limit that may apply, but it's never happened to me yet.

Someone also suggested to me that if a wheel chair user needs the space you can be made to leave the train, just an old wives tale?

If you use the wheelchair space with flip-up seats as overflow bike space (I've done that sometimes when I got on the wrong door because the train was the wrong way round) and someone wants it, then you will be asked to move to the bike spaces and if there's none free, you could be asked to get off and wait for the next one.

But if you're on a train with bookable bike spaces, they're usually not suitable for anything else except maybe standing room. On some (125s), they can't even be used for that.

[ChrisF]

Just imagine trying to get you AND your bike onto a packed train. It is sometimes hard enough to get YOU on, but it's just possible that the bike stowage is jammed packed and it's impossible - even though you've pre-booked your bike - to get your bike on board.
Personally, I wouldn't take the risk again.

I've been with bikes on trains for ages, sometimes booked and sometimes taking the risk and not booking. Never had a bike damaged (unlike my recent journey by air to Gatwick) and only once, 15 years ago now, had a problem where the guard wouldn't let my bike on because all the space was taken. After a brief 'discussion' he turfed off one of the (non-booked) bikes and its rider. I felt a bit sorry for that rider, but I was going 200 miles and he was probably only going 20.
Until recently it was necessary to book bikes at least 24 hours in advance, but now it seems that you can book 'on the spot'; the computer system seems to know how many spaces are free in real time (at Truro station anyway).

[pete75]

If it's booked, it's booked and I'd kick up a stink.

So would I. But, the small print still gives the 'guard' the final say. I was on a train toward Manchester a couple of years ago with a connection to Hull and the ferry. The train was busy and the bike space full with cases. The guard tried to tell me there wasn't space and I should get off the next stop even though I'd booked and attached the ticket to the bike. After 10 minutes of me re-arranging the cases he went away shaking his head. I checked afterwards and he was technically correct.

Are you sure it's the guard's discretion? Travelling from Grantham station I had a bike booking on East coast but my son didn't. Asked teh guy on the platform what we could do if all the other bike spaces were full and he said put the bike at the end of a carriage. I said are we allowed to do that and he said you can if I say you can. Depends who you get I suppose.

[TonyR]

Depends who you get I suppose.

It sure does. The only problem I've ever had was with a walk up on a Virgin Train to avoid waiting for a later and slower train with no booking requirement. The ticket office said fine if there's space and there was - a completely empty bike storage section. So loaded the bike and sat down. About ten minutes later the train guard came through checking tickets, got to the end of the carriage and then came back through the carriage clearly very agitated shouting "Whose bike is that?" I said it was mine and he started going on about how it hadn't been booked, it shouldn't be there etc etc. I tried saying, loud enough for most of the carriage to hear "What's your problem, that's what the ticket office told me to do, the bike spaces were completely unused" He ranted on so I tried the "Do you think this is making you and your company look good in front of all these customers?" More ranting so "Tell you what, if its that important to you, throw me and my bike off at the next station" Told me that was exactly what he intended to do to which I replied "Fine, it makes you happy and it makes me happy because its my destination", Smiles all round from the nearby passengers and he stormed off. There are some people for whom even the limited powers of a train guard are too much for them to responsibly handle.

OTOH the vast majority of guards I have come across have been friendly and helpful and that includes on Virgin.

[geocycle]

Depends who you get I suppose.

It sure does. The only problem I've ever had was with a walk up on a Virgin Train to avoid waiting for a later and slower train with no booking requirement. The ticket office said fine if there's space and there was - a completely empty bike storage section. So loaded the bike and sat down. About ten minutes later the train guard came through checking tickets, got to the end of the carriage and then came back through the carriage clearly very agitated shouting "Whose bike is that?" I said it was mine and he started going on about how it hadn't been booked, it shouldn't be there etc etc. I tried saying, loud enough for most of the carriage to hear "What's your problem, that's what the ticket office told me to do, the bike spaces were completely unused" He ranted on so I tried the "Do you think this is making you and your company look good in front of all these customers?" More ranting so "Tell you what, if its that important to you, throw me and my bike off at the next station" Told me that was exactly what he intended to do to which I replied "Fine, it makes you happy and it makes me happy because its my destination", Smiles all round from the nearby passengers and he stormed off. There are some people for whom even the limited powers of a train guard are too much for them to responsibly handle.

OTOH the vast majority of guards I have come across have been friendly and helpful and that includes on Virgin.

I think I've met him as well! But I agree with your last sentence that most are genuinely helpful.

[tyreon]

I made it back! Thanks for those who gave advice and guidance.

Don't want to savage the ticket meister at my first contact station but it went something like this: Yeah. Dunks kitakat into mug o T. Turns to page 3 o Sun. How can I elp u? I explain my situation. Nuthin doin. There's no reductions anywhere today. Youll have to wait ere til tomoro if you want anything. Turns page of paper,leans head onto palmed hand,a slow blink,gazes at page 3 DDs. I query,I remonstrate,big O. Well,it wasn't quite like that,but the guy was very indifferent,almost hostile(In his defense I think he'd just had a rush of 4/5 other cyclists just off the ferry...probably all wanting trains,just missing trains,all wanting travel,cheap tickets etc) I go away, exhausted by ferry journey. After stressed discussion with my wife,I return to ticket office to query what no-go areas I have been told. I don't know whether the guy had had a change of conscience or my further query made him a bit suspect I might make complaint,anyways,a volte face comesbout and avenues and doors that had been firmly shut,now were eased open and friendly advice given. I then thanked the guy +++
Now other problems arose because we had a tight schedule. No signage to get thru an automated barrier? I shout to officers for help...but theyre engaged with another. Rushing to get thru easy-access barrier,mir-cycle smashed!
Onto train: no signage and no help from guard as to where to load the bikes...we just have to enter the train anywhere. Are we in the correct department for bikes?Make sure the train doesn't leave: GET ON THE TRAIN! On the train we try to 'park the bikes',no sign or help of storage. On the Alton Towers ride(better than Dreamlands rollercoaster)the bikes smash over x2. The on and offcoming passengers do well to clamber over/around the commando obstacles(bicycles)
Second journey. Two other cyclists have bagged the bicycle space we had hoped for. We put ours alongside. No security straps to secure your bikes. Very limited space and hey! the 18stone fuel and drinks trolley is also supposed to go in there with the lady selling the stuff!
Cutting the story short: if you don't mind getting dinks and dings,broken guards and twanged derailleurs,have no back problems or other health issues that enable you to lift,twist,haul you bike around whilst confined in a very,very small space...the train is for you and your bike. If,on the other hand,you have an expensive bike and want it to remain just so...forget it: your bike has just been devalued by £400.
Stressfree? Yer avin a larf!... or other cyclists have undertaken and are successful in TM.
And the trip across London? I knew we couldn't take the bikes on the underground. Told the wife they wouldn't want my organs and asked she had my permission to instruct ambulance staff DNR. That place is one overcrowded place: chaotic. One of the two cyclists on the train said he'd seen an ambulance attending another crashed cyclist with injuries. Thed train does not take the strain+++

[PH]

Sorry, the the majority of those problems seem to arise from your reluctance to book on the internet. And there was no need to have gone through London, the alternative posted in an earlier thread would have been on quieter trains. It comes as no surprise to me that the people who set out expecting problems get them.