A Sad Day for Google Maps

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jamesgilbert
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by jamesgilbert »

Psamathe wrote:Stick to OpenStreet Map. It contains reference information (like supermarkets and what brand) though probably not as many and not as highlighted ("in your face") as the commercial operators.


I would like to use OpenStreetMap, but I can't find a way to make it display campsites until I've zoomed very far in. Is there any way to do this? At the moment I can only find campsites if I already know where they are, which kind of defeats the purpose...
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syklist
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by syklist »

ConRAD wrote:
syklist wrote:... the main difference with Google maps is that you have to enter way points in the left hand menu manually and place them in the right order, rather than simply clicking on the route to add a way point with Google maps...

... if you right click with the mouse directly on the route you get exactly what you were used to with gmaps.
The options are: starting point, destination point, intermediate point. Gpx file export is then immediate.
GREAT !!!

So it #?ؤ%" well does. I hadn't thought to right click :roll: FANTASTIC! A (virtual) pint/rohloff/peanut butter sandwich made with jam* to that ConRAD!!!

*select as appropriate.
Last edited by syklist on 12 May 2015, 7:15am, edited 2 times in total.
So long and thanks for all the fish...
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syklist
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by syklist »

Malaconotus wrote:Nooooooo!

The new maps don't work on any machine I own. Streetviewing is a big part of ride planning for me and I can't do it now. had been going back to classic maps each time. What do I do now?

Does this? http://gokml.net/maps

I don't know how long this will be up but it works as expected. Plus Street View works too.

Street View on New Google Maps is now so utterly annoying (apart from things popping up and down all the time, the map is reduced to a tiny thumbnail at the bottom left making it almost entirely useless) that I hope that this alternative exists for a bit longer - for the odd occasions I wish to use Street View.
So long and thanks for all the fish...
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andrew_s
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by andrew_s »

syklist wrote:
ConRAD wrote:... if you right click with the mouse directly on the route you get exactly what you were used to with gmaps.
The options are: starting point, destination point, intermediate point. Gpx file export is then immediate.
GREAT !!!

So it #?ؤ%" well does. I hadn't thought to right click :roll: FANTASTIC! A (virtual) pint/rohloff/peanut butter sandwich made with jam* to that ConRAD!!!
When I had a play, the only real problem I found was that the "clear route" option didn't allow you to then put in another route properly - you'd put in the start point OK, but the end point then replaced the start point. It's OK if you delete the points from the previous route one by one.
Malaconotus
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by Malaconotus »

syklist wrote:
Malaconotus wrote:Nooooooo!

The new maps don't work on any machine I own. Streetviewing is a big part of ride planning for me and I can't do it now. had been going back to classic maps each time. What do I do now?

Does this? http://gokml.net/maps

I don't know how long this will be up but it works as expected. Plus Street View works too.

Street View on New Google Maps is now so utterly annoying (apart from things popping up and down all the time, the map is reduced to a tiny thumbnail at the bottom left making it almost entirely useless) that I hope that this alternative exists for a bit longer - for the odd occasions I wish to use Street View.


Thanks. It's better. doesn't offer alternating between half-screen streetview and full-screen.
Psamathe
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by Psamathe »

jamesgilbert wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Stick to OpenStreet Map. It contains reference information (like supermarkets and what brand) though probably not as many and not as highlighted ("in your face") as the commercial operators.


I would like to use OpenStreetMap, but I can't find a way to make it display campsites until I've zoomed very far in. Is there any way to do this? At the moment I can only find campsites if I already know where they are, which kind of defeats the purpose...

Lack of detail of many computer based mapping system is something I find a bit of a nuisance. AppleMaps suffers the same problem in that it actually has a lot of useful info/POIs but you have to zoom in so close before they appear that you have to know they are there before you start. I think it is the aesthetic considerations (a beautiful "clean" tidy map is considered more important by the developers than including detailed information).

Not part of your question, but the mapping/tracking app I now use of my iPhone (MapOut) has a setting allowing you to determine the level of detail included (High or standard (or whatever wording they use). This controls at what zoom level details are no longer shown. I have sent them feedback that they should include a "very high" and "exceptionally high" setting as well (to include loads loads more detail al all zoom levels) and without agreeing to implement the feature, their response was "positive". The app also has a system of "layers" or "overlays" for features. Tourism overlay, transport overlay, Bicycle network, MTB routes, Hiking routes and Ski slopes (with more to come in future) and these can be individually enabled or disabled. So clearly some developers do recognise the need for detail at further out zoom levels but I appreciate the conflict between tidy pretty map and functional map providing useful info (plus, what is useful will be very different for different people).

Ian
matt_twam_asi
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by matt_twam_asi »

jamesgilbert wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Stick to OpenStreet Map. It contains reference information (like supermarkets and what brand) though probably not as many and not as highlighted ("in your face") as the commercial operators.


I would like to use OpenStreetMap, but I can't find a way to make it display campsites until I've zoomed very far in. Is there any way to do this? At the moment I can only find campsites if I already know where they are, which kind of defeats the purpose...


Overpass Turbo can do this. I've linked to a query that highlights all campsites on the current map screen, just press Run at the top left. http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/9kn

If the query times out then the search area is too big, try zooming in a bit.
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Psamathe wrote:So clearly some developers do recognise the need for detail at further out zoom levels but I appreciate the conflict between tidy pretty map and functional map providing useful info (plus, what is useful will be very different for different people).


Yep. The challenge with prerendered mapping is that if (say) you show campsites when zoomed out a long way, it looks fine in sparse areas where there aren't too many campsites, but somewhere like the Lake District becomes a forest of little tent symbols such that you can't actually see anything else!

With the mapping I've been developing for the Canal & River Trust, I've been experimenting with "clustering" such that when you're zoomed out, only one mooring site will show up per kilometre, for example - if you look at http://crt.systemed.net/ and zoom in/out you'll see how it works. I'd like to do the same with campsites on cycle.travel, but it's a much bigger dataset and the clustering algorithm is very slow, so it's not trivial.
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jamesgilbert
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by jamesgilbert »

matt_twam_asi wrote:
Overpass Turbo can do this. I've linked to a query that highlights all campsites on the current map screen, just press Run at the top left. http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/9kn

If the query times out then the search area is too big, try zooming in a bit.


That works very well, thanks! :D

Now all I need is for the campsite website to be displayed when you click on it (or at least the name); I've found a handful that do but most don't.
Psamathe
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by Psamathe »

jamesgilbert wrote:
matt_twam_asi wrote:
Overpass Turbo can do this. I've linked to a query that highlights all campsites on the current map screen, just press Run at the top left. http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/9kn

If the query times out then the search area is too big, try zooming in a bit.


That works very well, thanks! :D

Now all I need is for the campsite website to be displayed when you click on it (or at least the name); I've found a handful that do but most don't.

May or may not be relevant to your needs (or others) but is using a Smartphone and interested in campsite locations/contact info on maps, http://www.archiescampings.eu/eng1/ is good. You can download massive lists for Europe (complete, by region of country) as gpx POIs and then load that into you favourite mapping application (e.g.on GoogleEarth on OS X/Windows or whatever you use on your smartphone). Or they provide apps for different mobile devices/smartphones. I've no idea about the apps.

I was pointed to the site by others on this forum. Only does camp sites, not supermarkets, cinemas, etc. And I've not "explored: the list in detail.

Ian
Psamathe
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by Psamathe »

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Psamathe wrote:So clearly some developers do recognise the need for detail at further out zoom levels but I appreciate the conflict between tidy pretty map and functional map providing useful info (plus, what is useful will be very different for different people).


Yep. The challenge with prerendered mapping is that if (say) you show campsites when zoomed out a long way, it looks fine in sparse areas where there aren't too many campsites, but somewhere like the Lake District becomes a forest of little tent symbols such that you can't actually see anything else!

With the mapping I've been developing for the Canal & River Trust, I've been experimenting with "clustering" such that when you're zoomed out, only one mooring site will show up per kilometre, for example - if you look at http://crt.systemed.net/ and zoom in/out you'll see how it works. I'd like to do the same with campsites on cycle.travel, but it's a much bigger dataset and the clustering algorithm is very slow, so it's not trivial.

Interesting idea. I suppose the ideal would be that in addition to a zoom control you have a detail control/slider (except of course on smartphones you tend to use a pinch zoom rather than a slider or +/- buttons). But as you say pre-rendered must be somewhat more constrained. That said, I would have thought the pre-rendered must add things like campsites/supermarkets, etc. more as POIs so they can be "active" and clicking on them pops-up more details (rather than basing a click on a coordinate). As you are probably more aware than me on, MapOut uses vector mapping (rather than pre-rendered) so I guess they have more flexibility. But they also don't have the most powerful processor in the world and if they use it excessively then poor old battery suffers. (I think I was pointed to MapOut by one of your own posts as well).

(I may have got my terminology or understanding completely wrong in which case please fo feel free to correct me - no offence would be taken. I'd be learning stuff anyway).

Ian
matt_twam_asi
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by matt_twam_asi »

jamesgilbert wrote:
matt_twam_asi wrote:
Overpass Turbo can do this. I've linked to a query that highlights all campsites on the current map screen, just press Run at the top left. http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/9kn

If the query times out then the search area is too big, try zooming in a bit.


That works very well, thanks! :D

Now all I need is for the campsite website to be displayed when you click on it (or at least the name); I've found a handful that do but most don't.


Yes, that's the limitation with the crowdsourced nature of OSM, however it does give one a nudge to add info where it is known :)
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Psamathe wrote:Interesting idea. I suppose the ideal would be that in addition to a zoom control you have a detail control/slider (except of course on smartphones you tend to use a pinch zoom rather than a slider or +/- buttons). But as you say pre-rendered must be somewhat more constrained. That said, I would have thought the pre-rendered must add things like campsites/supermarkets, etc. more as POIs so they can be "active" and clicking on them pops-up more details (rather than basing a click on a coordinate). As you are probably more aware than me on, MapOut uses vector mapping (rather than pre-rendered) so I guess they have more flexibility. But they also don't have the most powerful processor in the world and if they use it excessively then poor old battery suffers. (I think I was pointed to MapOut by one of your own posts as well).

(I may have got my terminology or understanding completely wrong in which case please fo feel free to correct me - no offence would be taken. I'd be learning stuff anyway).


No correction needed - you're pretty much there!

Making POIs clickable on pre-rendered OSM-based maps is harder, much harder than it ought to be - it's a missing piece in the standard OSM stack and no-one's fixed it (https://github.com/openstreetmap/mod_tile/issues/58 for what it's worth), partly because a lot of the big guys like Mapbox are moving towards client-based vector mapping.

Showing the right amount of information, clearly and attractively, at a given scale is pretty much the traditional art of cartography. Modern web-based cartography tends to sidestep the issue, either by saying "zoom in to see more", or by taking the Google approach, which is to consider the basemap as a neutral, low-detail canvas onto which search results can be superimposed in real time. That, I think, is why the Google basemap is so white and grey these days - Google doesn't really want to show you the roads, they want to show you the results of your search or navigation query.

I'm old-fashioned enough that I think it's still worth getting the basemap right. I do quite a lot of preprocessing in the cycle.travel cartography to that end - for example, there are different cartographical rules for rural areas, small towns and massive cities. But it's a dying art.
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horizon
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by horizon »

Richard Fairhurst wrote:the Google approach, which is to consider the basemap as a neutral, low-detail canvas onto which search results can be superimposed in real time. That, I think, is why the Google basemap is so white and grey these days - Google doesn't really want to show you the roads, they want to show you the results of your search or navigation query.



That's why I think Google using the word "map" is stretching the point a bit. I thought "advertising flyer" was much better.
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ConRAD
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Re: A Sad Day for Google Maps

Post by ConRAD »

I'm sincerely pretty confused ... Classic Google Maps, "new" Google Maps, GoogleMyMaps ... etc. etc..
Just one question: is it possible to import a kml/kmz/gpx file into the "NEW" gmaps and display the relevant route ?
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