Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

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looserlama
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Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by looserlama »

Hi!

So I will be biking across Europe this summer, and one of the last things I was wondering was how you advise to best lock up my bike during the day?

For evenings I'm not too worried: if we're camping out of town we'll tie our bikes to a tree and if we're staying in a hostel or hotel we'll bring the bikes into our room. What I'm concerned with is during the day: if we stop at a café or at a grocery store in a town or city how should we lock our bikes? And what should we do with our panniers?

The reason I'm so concerned with this is because so far we've opted for lighter weight locks (these), which should be fine to deter someone from stealing our bike in a rural setting, but when we get to cities or towns I'm worried these won't cut it. Obviously if we're going to go explore a city we could potentially find a bike shop that might be willing to hold on to our bikes for the day, but when we're doing quick stops, like lunch in café for ex., what should we do? Also, should we bring all our panniers in with us? Because that would be a lot to bring into a small café for ex., but it would be very bad if someone took off with our tent or stove or gas canister (I will always have my valuables with me, but these are bulkier items I don't think I'd like to lug around a grocery store for ex.).

I don't particularly want to buy a U-lock, because they're pretty heavy, so I'm not really sure how to deal with it. So what do you think I should do? Any advice or experience with this would be amazing!

FYI: we'll be biking through Spain, France, Luxembourg, Germany, Denmark, Sweden & Norway.
(I'm sorry if there's already a post about this, I've found some about locking bikes overnight, but not for these situations)
hufty
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by hufty »

We only use a cafe lock like that never a D lock. If there's more than one of you then shops are not going to be a problem - someone goes in, someone stays with the bikes. For cafes etc we choose one that affords good sight lines - if we can't see the bikes from the table we don't eat there. In general we leave the panniers on and just take valuables in the bar bag.

On the other hand don't get too worried about it - most people are not going to want to nick your bike!
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looserlama
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by looserlama »

Ok, that's reassuring. Thanks for your quick reply btw!

On a similar note, would you recommend a wheel lock? Like this? I've used them before when I was biking in the Netherlands and I really liked them, but I'm not sure if it's worth it for this trip? I already have a pinhead lock on the front wheel.
eileithyia
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by eileithyia »

Never had an issue with leaving panniers on a bike, and seriously never really considered. I have toured solo so not had the luxury of leaving someone to watch over bikes nor always been sat where the bike is always in view.
Only issue i ever had is when i left a camera on full view just looped under a bungie cord outside a shop in Bastia and it was taken.
Have left the bike(s) in all sorts of places when visiting tourist attractions and never had a problem.
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robgul
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by robgul »

looserlama wrote:Ok, that's reassuring. Thanks for your quick reply btw!

On a similar note, would you recommend a wheel lock? Like this? I've used them before when I was biking in the Netherlands and I really liked them, but I'm not sure if it's worth it for this trip? I already have a pinhead lock on the front wheel.


Those locks - they call them nurse's locks here (think Call the Midwife) are OK but are usually hard to fit to a road or touring bike that has fairly delicate rear stays.

Going back to the original question ... if the area is considered risky ... more than one person and then one stops with the bikes. The other way is for several bikes to be locked together to a fixed point with several locks - making a "cluster of bikes" with multiple locks that make it harder to either nick one or all of them. We used the heavy duty Abus combination cable locks (and we all knew each other's numbers) - no keys to lose ... simples!

The other thing we have is a plastic coated wire with a couple of loops at each end (you can get the wire and the crimp fixings at B&Q) that we used to secure helmets - wire through the vent holes of n helmets and the loops on the end of the wire on the cable of one of the combination locks. The same type of cable also for panniers passing through he usual strap handles - not a prevention but a deterrent.

And of course a bar bag with shoulder strap to take off the bike for valuables.

Possibly famous last words but touring bikes loaded with stuff aren't very desirable to most thieves .....

Rob
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CJ
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by CJ »

The only reliable way that I've found to include big (=wicked) city sights in a cycle tour, is to stay there a night or two, in a place with a roof and locked doors - NOT camping. And I've seldom had to smuggle bikes into my hotel room. They generally have some kind of storage space if you ask. Stay somewhere else if they say no, its a big city remember, there will be lots of hotels.

A good plan is to arrive in such a city in the morning, find hotel, leave bikes and luggage in their care (usually possible even when rooms are not ready yet) and spend the afternoon doing the sights. When museums etc. close: return to now prepared room and shower, then out again for a meal and the night-life. Even if you're checking next day, the hotel will generally care for your bikes etc. while you spend the morning sightseeing (they'll even be pleased to do so if they think that's helping to get you out of the room good and early). That way you get a whole day of city sights for only one hotel night, rather than two.

If hotels are simply too expensive. Try warmshowers.

Only in Dutch cities can you rely upon finding a secure, paid for bike park. Some cycle-friendly cities in other countries have them too, but not all. For instance Munich is very cycle friendly, but I found no trace of a secure bike park on any of the Munich cycling websites Google (and Google.de) could find.
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FarOeuf
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by FarOeuf »

Never had a problem in years of riding around Europe, also never met anyone who had a problem. I think the assumption should be that you'd be really unlucky to have something/everything stolen, and work from that basis. Once you get past worrying about theft abroad, and realise it's theft at home that's the bigger problem, then being away is actually a bit of a relief :)

For towns/cities I tend to put the bike in a very visible public place, the opposite of hiding it. If I'm stopping for coffee/food, I'll put it in full view, and close, to the place I'm going. I'll then take my time around the bike to make sure people so it's mine, especially the staff of the cafe. For supermarkets I tend to just be as quick inside as possible, and stick it inside the entrance if there's space. If I'm going to wander, eg around some shops, I'll pick a suitable cafe (friendly, not too busy, nice space outside for the bike) have a coffee and ask them to keep an eye on it. If you sit in a cafe and watch people, you'll find it's rare that anyone even looks at your bike let alone approaches it.

You could also shift the focus of the problem. Logically everyone (regardless of nationality) acts in a pretty similar way, they're mostly good people. The worry comes from internal paranoia (which we all start off with, probably media induced), and a great side effect of travelling abroad is that it breaks down this paranoia somewhat. If you don't have much experience of cycing abroad, then take the assumption that you'll be learning on the road and that the worry you have about bike security will ease off with time. There's no quick fix, just time on the road to develop your sense of when somewhere feels right or wrong.

cheers,
bikerwaser
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by bikerwaser »

I agree with comments saying there isn't usually a problem. I've been through France and Spain and been fine. I haven't left the bike out of sight in dodgy areas though.
I have a D lock and cable and also a movement sensor alarm which i think is good for the money :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/M-Wave-234000-M ... B00342V73K

it is possible to get very slim cable locks like this one to put through the panniers. :
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/abus-combiflex- ... 00043804uk

or just get a length of that sized cable to attach to your existing lock.

again i think it's unlikely to have a problem if you're wise about it.

all the best

Bikerwaser
Ben@Forest
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by Ben@Forest »

I agree with the idea of leaving your bike where you stay when in cities - youth hostels are always pretty good because they do have somewhere to lock bikes and of course are generally cheaper.

I also agree that generally bike panniers get left alone but about ten years ago I saw two bikes chained to a tree in a car park outside San Gimignano, somebody had comprehensively gone through all of their panniers and just left their possessions scattered around the bikes. But of course just about everyone in that car park would have been a tourist and I'm sure the same thief would have smashed a car window if he/she had seen anything tempting on a back seat. Let's face it - comparatively rich tourists attract thieves.
nmnm
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by nmnm »

Do you need 7 feet of cable? Seems quite long. You could go shorter and lighter or shorter and thicker maybe? Wheels can be secured w hex bolts / 3mm cable / security skewers options, much easier at lock-up time too than getting that 10mm cable through all the wheels.
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syklist
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by syklist »

We often take chains with padlocks (500g - 1kg) remove the panniers and lock our bikes together round something solid such as a lamp post if we leave them for any length of time. Panniers go in left luggage boxes at train or bus stations, ferry terminals etc during the day. We once left our bikes with all their panniers on them locked up outside a supermarket in Røros with no problem. Not that I would try that in the centre of Oslo. If we need to buy groceries then one of us stays with the bikes and chills out whilst the other one tries to find everything we need. We only use cafes with seating on the street and park our bikes fully laden within sight or, preferably within reach. One of us goes in and orders the nosh whilst the other waits to be surprised :)

If you are in a hotel I would check if you are allowed to take your bikes into your room. We've done this with our Bromptons on occasion but they were folded and hidden them under a rain cover as we wheeled them in.I would be a bit surprised if you would be allowed to take a normal bike into your room. In Norway/Denmark the odd few times we have stayed in hotels or hostels we asked if there was a place to put bikes off the road and out of sight. Often they did have a spot, usually in the basement, once in the quadrangle in the middle of the block.
Last edited by syklist on 28 Apr 2015, 11:50am, edited 1 time in total.
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syklist
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by syklist »

looserlama wrote:On a similar note, would you recommend a wheel lock? Like this? I've used them before when I was biking in the Netherlands and I really liked them, but I'm not sure if it's worth it for this trip? I already have a pinhead lock on the front wheel.

We have these on our old tourers and they work fine. You can plug in an extra cable or chain lock - these vary in length/weight/level of security. Some of these frame locks can be quite heavy so check the weight before you buy.
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foxyrider
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by foxyrider »

Sensible precaution is the way to go.

Don't leave valuables on the bike (the use of bar bags has already been mentioned in this regard), use locking wheel systems, don't hide the bike when you leave it.

Most thieves are not interested in your dirty washing/smelly sleeping bag/half eaten loaf but don't tempt fate by leaving easily removed stuff on the bike (i put bottles/pump/tool bag inside a pannier if i'm leaving it unattended.)

Try to avoid parking in big cities with all your bags - if its unavoidable most railway stations have lockers - very useful in this situation. I would certainly echo others suggestion of not taking the bike into the city if it can be avoided.

If the locals look dodgy / the area gives a bad vibe - don't stop there! If you were at home would you leave it in this spot?

Campsites are generally pretty safe - people are there on holiday not to nick your kit! Obviously lock your bike up but don't be paranoid about it - there will be easier pickings elsewhere, in my experience most campers don't lock anything up!

When i do need to lock on the street i have a cable which goes through pannier fixings which is used in conjunction with a fairly short armoured cable.

I do think that having a quirky looking bike is something of a deterrent too, its more likely to arouse curiosity than theft and its very uniqueness makes it harder to move on and easier to identify.
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robing
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by robing »

Agree with the other posts. I have 3 locks for my touring bike. One thin Abus combo lock mentioned above and 2 other cable locks. I use the thicker one to secure the bike to something immovable, then the other two to secure the panniers. it's usually for a supermarket stop, leave the bike somewehere in full view near the entrance. Handlebar bag comes with me. Small town Spain and France I've had no problems. In larger cities I would tend to find a hotel and leave me bike there and venture out on foot. Generally continental Europe is safer than UK. Decided against D lock due to weight.
looserlama
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Re: Locking bikes & panniers during the day in Europe

Post by looserlama »

Ok awesome! All your suggestions make sense. Awesome tip about locking panniers in a locker if we're in a city.

Thanks everyone!
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