Trailer vs Panniers

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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mjr
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Re: Trailer vs Panniers

Post by mjr »

Tangled Metal wrote:The speed that this happens at is not fixed but changes as the load in the trailer changes and TBH I think it is bad luck or bad loading of the trailer that gets the snaking.

So what's good loading of a trailer? I've never had one before the last year, for any vehicle.
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Mick F
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Re: Trailer vs Panniers

Post by Mick F »

I've towed with a bike and with a car.

Car:
Caravan
Trailers - four different ones over the years. Various loads from 12cwt of coal, and empty.

Bike:
Carry Freedom - various loads including TWO concrete blocks and zero load too.

Never ever ever have I had any snaking or weaving.
Make sure the weight is over the axle and not on the nose or tail.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Trailer vs Panniers

Post by Tangled Metal »

TBH I do not know. I was really thinking of caravans and what I have read about them snaking. I have read some things on trailers for cars about loading being important in the past. I can honestly say I have never had the snaking trailer but perhaps I just have not towed one for long enough and given time I will experience it. So far I have only towed our child trailer behind a bike and a kayak trailer behind a minibus a few times. These loads and the weight distribution between towing vehicle and the trailer are a lot different to car/trailer combo. I have towed a kayak trailer with a collapsed frame that meant the mudguard was rubbing on the tyre. I did not realise for some time resulting in a very hot tyre and nearly a blowout. That is the limit of the personal experience of trailers being difficult.

I would have thought the way the load is evenly spread in the trailer has an impact on how it handles. Also the design of the trailer also matters. I have seen a small tipper truck towing a tiny trailer before now with the trailer positively jumping around behind the truck. The driver would have been oblivious about it because there was no line of sight to the trailer. I guess that counts as extreme snaking.

BTW do you feel the cycle towed trailer is any different in how it handles to the car trailer? Perhaps a cyclist rarely exceeds the speed necessary for snaking. Afterall most trailer makers give a max speed limit for towing their trailers. My Burly is 15mph.
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Mick F
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Re: Trailer vs Panniers

Post by Mick F »

I did say up-thread, that I forget the trailer is behind me when I'm riding. It's silent and steady and faithful. No affect on the bike and me at all, with a heavy weight or no weight. Maybe I can hear it when it's empty as it rattles a bit.

With the car, a loaded trailer reverses better than an unloaded one, and I feel that having a loaded trailer sort of stabilises the car ............ much like a tail does on a kite.

Max speed on the CF trailer is quite low, but I've been bombing along at 40mph+ with it. All you have to do is make sure you brake early and not take any risks with blind corners or in traffic. In those cases, you need to take your time ...... not because of stability, but in increased braking distance.

Same with a car and loaded trailer. You need a longer stopping distance, but remember that there is a legal max speed limit of only 50mph on the open road.
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meic
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Re: Trailer vs Panniers

Post by meic »

BTW to anyone towing a trailer with a child in please refer to the operators manual for your trailer model. They usually give you a maximum recommended speed for riding at while towing the trailer. With my Burley D-lite that is 15mph. With another make I think it works out at 18mph. All that is a lot less than the 30mph someone on here claimed to be riding at. It may be safe at speed but personally I do not want to test it with my toddler, your choice of course (not the choice of the trailer occupant over the speed traveled). I have done 24.6mph (as I discovered after checking Strava at the end of the ride) but I got a stern telling off at the time and slowed down. The D-lite was very stable at that speed but at what speed does that stability go?


At what speed does the stability go? It doesnt!

I did 8,500 miles with my daughter in the trailer and we showed it no mercy, the two previous owners got more use out of it each than I did and we all agree the thing knows no limits.
Let the manufacturers stick on a 15mph limit to cover themselves against people doing something stupid at a speed greater than that.

As for not the choice of the trailer occupant, they loved it! :D

So we have three families here who have succeeded in pushing this trailer as far as they wanted through the toddler years of their children with never a moment's scare from the trailer. If that isnt good enough an indicator, what happens if you do go unstable and come off? The rider gets hurt and the child laughs at them as they ride relatively safely over the top in a trailer. I never felt that happy about a baby seat on the bike.

The only reason I can not make claims of 50 mph is because the aerodynamics would never allow it.

My trailer days are probably the happiest days of my life and my daughter loved them too. She did her first AAA Audax in it at three or four years of age, plenty of good descents on that too. I am totally relaxed about riding with the trailer as it was just so reliable and steadfast. Non stop hills around here and we would come down them at thirty miles an hour on a regular basis, going up was often a tenth of the speed. :(

Between us we have probably thirty thousand miles of experience of that trailer, often in very hilly terrain. I consider it well tested in real life and it passes with flying colours.
Somebody once described to me watching it go airborne behind me when traversing a speed bump (It may even have been Eileithyia from this forum).
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Re: Trailer vs Panniers

Post by Vorpal »

My trailer, to has always been stable. I don't think we've done nearly so many miles as meic, but I have ignored the recommended maximum speed. I've also used it to haul some fairly heavy loads. I came off the bike once on ice when I pulling the trailer. It was a cold, January day. The roads had been treated, but I was approaching a 'road closed' sign, and I thought that road wouldn't have been treated ahead, so I was going to stop and walk. As soon as I touched the brakes, I realised I had already gotten to the bit that wasn't treated :shock: The bike went down. I went down. The trailer ran into me, and the kids thought it was funny. The worst that happened was I tore my favourite winter tights.

I did come close to tipping the trailer once, when I ran one wheel of an empty trailer up the kerb. It didn't tip, but it was a near thing. And lots of bouncing afterwards.
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DaveP
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Re: Trailer vs Panniers

Post by DaveP »

mjr wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:So what's good loading of a trailer?


Mostly common sense. Anything heavy should go directly on the bed. Take care to distribute the weight evenly from side to side and make it slightly nose heavy (for two wheel trailers) You don't want the trailer hitch lifting the back wheels of the towing vehicle, whether car or bike. That could cause problems when trying to slow down...
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Re: Trailer vs Panniers

Post by Vorpal »

IMO, there are other things that can affect trailer handling, as well. Tyre pressure on both bike and trailer will make a difference. Load distribution, road surface, wind, speed, trailer mounting system and bike handling are all things that could effect it.

When I experienced snaking with the trailer bike, I think that I just hit a harmonic point between my pedaling cadence (the bike swaying slightly), the speed, the length of the trailer bike, and maybe a couple of other factors. A seat post mounted trailer is both more affected by bike handling in this way, and has a longer distance between the mounting bike and the trailer. A shorter trailer hitch distance will mean less movement at the trailer, when the bike moves. A seat post mounting will reflect much more of the sway from pedaling than an axle mounting. The best thing to do is slow down, however, this may immediately make the problem temporarily worse.

As above, a slightly nose heavy trailer is best. The load should be as low as possible, and well-secured. Snaking is much more likely if the load can move.
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TimP
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Re: Trailer vs Panniers

Post by TimP »

A trailer adds a load of extra weight - the trailer and hitch. Then the extra wheels also mean extra rolling resistance too.
Whether you prefer the feel of the panniers on the bike or the drag of the weight on the back end is a matter of personal choice. With a 2 wheel trailer I would be uncomfortable on twisty descents since the lighter bike has to be able to hold back a loaded unbraked trailer that doesn't lean into the corners with the bike. I have seen a single wheel trailer that leans with the bike but have never tried one.

From this you can see that my preference is for the panniers - it also makes parking and storage easier when out on tour - ferries, trains and so on too. If I needed to move really heavy and/or bulky stuff, then I can understand using a trailer. If not, then I don't see the benefits, I see the extra weight, complications and of course cost.
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