Touring bike choice for people with long legs

[22camels]

Alright, see below. Not a great picture but best I've got for now. I emphasise my current fit is probably wrong and bike is probably too small and I don't necessarily want the same position on a new bike. Also - for april's fool day I've got a 30mm longer than usual stem and funny wide horn bars on instead of the usual drops - please try to ignore this - it's just a little experiment with bar shapes. I'm also a bit tense trying to pose for the photo - my arms aren't normally that straight! (maybe it's also the longer stem which doesn't feel right).

[reohn2]

I'd say the saddle's too high and that you have short thighs and long lower legs,hence KOPS @ saddle 50mm behind the BB.

BTW,that's the weirdest arrangement of road STI's I've seen But if it suit who am I to judge.

[531colin]

Please remember the following is advice, offered in the tradition of cyclists trying to help each other.....I'm sure bits of it will come across as critical, but I don't see what else I can do, as I think your position is miles out......

The saddle needs to go down quite a lot, and back quite a lot. As soon as you alter a riding position you have used for a while, it will feel "all wrong" .....its bound to. So I suggest you drop the saddle and move it back 5mm at a time and get used to each adjustment before you make the next increment. Saddle height needs to be right for smooth pedalling, if its too high you will point your toes and wiggle your hips just to keep a bit of bend in the knee at the bottom of the stroke.....lack of fluidity at the bottom of the stroke is the hallmark of too high a saddle. However, I have seen worse......



Saddle position front to back is much more about your balance on the bike than about pedalling efficiency. If the saddle is too forward, it throws weight onto your hands, and I think this is the likely cause of your neck problems....this is me, aged about 64, and now at 67 my position hasn't changed..(68 in a couple of months...how did that happen?)....You can't judge too much from the position of the saddle nose, as you don't sit on the nose, but mine is 75mm behind the BB, and I'm shorter than you.



How to tell if your saddle is far enough back? The small amount of weight I put on the bars I can support with no strain on one finger of each hand on the brake hoods.
My saddle height is set so there is still bend in my knee with my foot level or even heel down, in cycling shoes with low/no heel. This means i can carry on pedalling fluidly on rough tracks while letting the saddle bounce underneath me, with little weight on the saddle.

My position has much more forward lean than yours. This braces my lower back for those occasions when I'm pedalling hard, and means off-road I can un-weight either wheel by redistributing my weight to go smoothly over the bumps.

Riding past Pen y Ghent.....in balance, and relaxed.....nice day in a place like that.

[22camels]

thank you, this is great. I did say my current position is probably off, though whether or not it's related to the neck issue I wouldn't jump to conclusions - i spent two days test riding two other bikes recently each set up properly by a shop and i had the same neck issue each time..

i'll have a go making small adjustments to saddle height and fore/aft though and see if it's any better. Though I've already adjusted a lot over the time i've been riding this bike and feel there is not that much more I can gain from understanding why it doesn't work, I may as well start from scratch with the new bike (I've spent over 12 months deliberating now and will probably end up going with the Thorn Sherpa - still have to decide between frame sizes though).

sorry for the dumb question, but I didn't quite understand why the position in the first picture in your post was that bad?

I can see your position has much more forward lean than mine, and that this can be a good thing, but this aspect is a matter of preference is it not?

p.s. the sti levers.. yeah.. funny I know.. nowhere else to put them, it's just a little experiment, will be back to drops in a week.

[531colin]

........sorry for the dumb question, but I didn't quite understand why the position in the first picture in your post was that bad? ....

The lass in the pink shirt had her saddle much too high....inches too high....in that "before" photo, you can see her heel is probably 2 to 3 inches higher than the ball of her foot....this is stretching to reach the pedal at the bottom, while maintaining some bend in her knee....she was rocking on the saddle too.

This is the "after" photo, this was as low as she would let me put the saddle....still a bit too high, i thought, which is why making big changes a bit at a time is a good idea....



Edit...leaning forward is of course a matter of preference, but.....
you won't get a position as upright as your picture with drops and anything near a conventional bike
leaning forward braces your lower back for hard pedalling efforts....when I have had an upright position and tried to pedal hard, I have found it a strain on my back, obviously I'm not used to it. Comfortable for pedalling gently just from the hips down.
easier to distribute your weight on our broken roads if you are not sat bolt upright, all weight on top of the saddle.
advantages in head or side winds, too
Google "Steve Hogg" for bike fitting information.

[dandru]

I was only thinking yesterday that rather than talk about frame geometry, pictures of how far people lean forward on a bike would be far better and that's what's happening now. I use two bikes for touring, with the MTB, my posture would be similar to your picture above, whereas on my touring bike I'm leaning forward more on the hoods and can get down reasonably low on the drops, whereas I can sit up on the flats and have the same posture as my MTB for climbing etc.

[mercalia]

513colin - "The small amount of weight I put on the bars I can support with no strain on one finger of each hand on the brake hoods."

Depends on how strenously you are riding? most weight is on the legs? Not if you are just bimbling along or anything less ,then the weight distribution changes? Then hands progessively move onto the tops and if reach has been adjusted for good hood comfort ( at a decent speed ) then the tops suffer with more weight on the back side and hands. Thats what I have found. Some thing that seems ignored is the effect of saddle tilt on weight on hands. small changes there can make a big difference I think.

[Bicycler]

I was only thinking yesterday that rather than talk about frame geometry, pictures of how far people lean forward on a bike would be far better and that's what's happening now. I use two bikes for touring, with the MTB, my posture would be similar to your picture above, whereas on my touring bike I'm leaning forward more on the hoods and can get down reasonably low on the drops, whereas I can sit up on the flats and have the same posture as my MTB for climbing etc.

Other than having wider bars on my MTB and hybrid than on my drop barred bikes, my normal hand position is roughly the same ie. the reach to the flat bar and reach to the hoods are set the same. I don't understand why they would be different for the same cyclist unless, as Mercalia says, the different bikes were being ridden much differently

[dandru]

Other than having wider bars on my MTB and hybrid than on my drop barred bikes, my normal hand position is roughly the same ie. the reach to the flat bar and reach to the hoods are set the same. I don't understand why they would be different for the same cyclist unless, as Mercalia says, the different bikes were being ridden much differently

I learnt a long time ago to do what Surly recommend, seek professional advice, and each bike is setup differently, on the more expensive bikes the fitting is free whereas the cheaper bikes it costs but it saves a lot of hassle. My Cannondale touring bike was fitted by a touring specialist, whereas my Specialized road bike was BG fitted.

If your bike was professionally fitted and that's the reason for your bar position, then it shows that body shape is the reason for the different bar positions, just like Surly mention.

http://surlybikes.com/info_hole/spew/spew_bike_fit

[Bicycler]

I'm sorry I'm a bit confused. I'm pretty sure I understand the article which is about choosing the right size of frame. What I asked was why two bikes used by the same cyclist for the same purpose wouldn't have the normal hand position set roughly the same distance from the saddle.

[531colin]

I'm sorry I'm a bit confused. I'm pretty sure I understand the article which is about choosing the right size of frame. What I asked was why two bikes used by the same cyclist for the same purpose wouldn't have the normal hand position set roughly the same distance from the saddle.

I'm with Bicycler on this. Last time I had a flat-bar bike, I messed around for ages . When I finally got comfortable I rode most of the time on the bar ends. Surprisingly enough, these were at the same reach as the hoods on the drop bar bikes....so that I occasionally went the wrong way for the brakes....now I'm back to drops on all the bikes, and much happier. I don't race, just on and some off road touring for pleasure.

[reohn2]

I'm with Bicycler on this. Last time I had a flat-bar bike, I messed around for ages . When I finally got comfortable I rode most of the time on the bar ends. Surprisingly enough, these were at the same reach as the hoods on the drop bar bikes....so that I occasionally went the wrong way for the brakes....now I'm back to drops on all the bikes, and much happier. I don't race, just on and some off road touring for pleasure.

Which is the main reason I won't use bar ends on my MTB and sought a comfortable flat bar with a good back sweep(Humpert Space Bugel),problem solved and the grips are nearer to the saddle than the hoods are on my drop barred bikes
But then I don't spend more than 31/2 to 4 hours in the saddle on that bike.
That said,I like the drops in a position where I can ride them most of the time,on or (mild)off road,getting the tops up higher than the saddle provides me with that comfort.

[22camels]

I've actually been wondering whether, after I get the new bike, whether it's worth paying for a bike fit. Let's assume I go for the Thorn, yes they will set me up though I have to tell them how relaxed or sporty I want the position, and then I can fine tune the position myself. But is it worth getting one of these bells and whistles bike fits as well perhaps? It seems to me a lot of them are focused on racing fits (I spoke to one Retul fitter recently who said as much and that they'd basically have to ignore most of what the system tells them making it pointless)? Or do you think I may still learn something from the experience that would be useful to me in the future? If so, does anyone know a good fitter in South Wales or South-West England?

This thread has been very helpful, thanks for all your input.

[531colin]

513colin - "The small amount of weight I put on the bars I can support with no strain on one finger of each hand on the brake hoods."

Depends on how strenously you are riding? most weight is on the legs? Not if you are just bimbling along or anything less ,then the weight distribution changes? Then hands progessively move onto the tops and if reach has been adjusted for good hood comfort ( at a decent speed ) then the tops suffer with more weight on the back side and hands. Thats what I have found. Some thing that seems ignored is the effect of saddle tilt on weight on hands. small changes there can make a big difference I think.

Freewheeling I have very little weight on my hands on the hoods.
On an off-road descent thats steep and either loose or slippery, I need my hands on the hoods to brake, but I still need to distribute my weight between the wheels.....the back wheel will lock up easily, without slowing you down much, so braking needs to come from the front wheel...... you need enough weight on the front to get some grip for braking, but too much weight on the front in those circumstances means things can rapidly go pear-shaped. I tend to hang my backside off the back of the saddle, but I wonder if thats largely psychological.....my weight is acting on the pedals, all I can do by moving my body back is relieve some weight off the bars.
Tilting the saddle nose-down will tip you onto the bars, but tilting it nose-up all I ever got was numb willy syndrome. (as I believe its known in polite circles)

[531colin]

..............,problem solved and the grips are nearer to the saddle than the hoods are on my drop barred bikes
But then I don't spend more than 31/2 to 4 hours in the saddle on that bike.
That said,I like the drops in a position where I can ride them most of the time,on or (mild)off road,getting the tops up higher than the saddle provides me with that comfort.

Everybody is different....your "problem solved" is a problem created for me.....I want the same reach on all my bikes.
Similarly, as far as I'm concerned, the drops are for headwinds or occasionally for chasing somebody down. (I'm not too old yet!) I can't think why you would want to ride most of the time in the lowest position of what, about 4 workable positions with drops?
If it works for you, great, but its not "the answer" for me...