Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
nez
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by nez »

Jimstar79 wrote:Hey Chocojohn, thanks for the link. I can't believe they are selling the Super Galaxy for £799 with a saving of £700!

I know it says they are out of stock but they say they are available to order. I have never read a bad word about Dawes - in fact, I am going to contact them right now and find out if I can order one, can't get better than that for your money.

You can. I bought a Super Galaxy a few years ago and it's 853. I think they've been tinkering with the spec - no wonder they have to flog the bikes 700 sovs off!
simonhill
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by simonhill »

Your long term plan is to move from UK to European, to long haul stuff. I don't know how quickly you will be doing this, but you may want to be thinking about a bike for the end of your plan rather than the beginning.

Debate rages, but many would say a robust 26" tourer would be more suitable for fully loaded touring in Central Asia.

PS I am biased, I ride a Surly and tour amost exclusively in Asia.
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Jimstar79
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by Jimstar79 »

simonhill wrote:Your long term plan is to move from UK to European, to long haul stuff. I don't know how quickly you will be doing this, but you may want to be thinking about a bike for the end of your plan rather than the beginning.

Debate rages, but many would say a robust 26" tourer would be more suitable for fully loaded touring in Central Asia.

PS I am biased, I ride a Surly and tour amost exclusively in Asia.


Well, it is hard to argue with you seeing that you already have experience touring in Asia! Nearly everything I have read about 26" wheels is positive - especially regarding strength, manouveability, low gearing, and, importantly, getting replacement parts. To be sensible about touring I think I need to start at home, in the Lakes and in and around Scotland before I can head off towards Europe. It may be a year or more before I head off towards C. Asia.

I'm going to start looking at 26" wheel touring bikes - just out of curiosity - but so far I have only come across Surly and one or two others (like Thorn) but these are just out of my price range. It seems that people who own Surly's really love their bikes!! I'll have a look around for second-hand ones.

I've only experience riding a disk brake bike for a short while and really liked it - now, I am getting hung up on a touring bike with disk brakes over standard cantilever. Part of me feels like this is wrong and normal brakes are fine for what I want to do, another part of me nags away saying that disk brakes are stronger, more effective and work better in bad weather - they also don't ruin rims in the same way.

I haven't done this much research since I was at university!

thanks guys!
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Merry_Wanderer
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by Merry_Wanderer »

You can have V brakes as an alternative to cantilevers and depending on the rims you have, they will last many thousands of miles. You can also have very low gearing on a 'normal' sized wheel, not just a 26 inch. The thing that complicates matters is if you want STI combined gear shifters and brake levers like a lot of drop handlebar road bikes because these aren't compatible with mtb gearing or v brakes.

If you want drop handlebars and aren't fussed about STI's then you can have bar-end (gear) shifters and a standard brake lever. These 2 separate items are cheaper than STIs and more easily repaired or replaced. As an example of low gearing, my 26 inch wheeled Surly has a 44/32/22 chainrings and an 11-34 cassette which gives me as a low gear, 22/34 x 26 = 16. something inch low gear. I need this to spin up hills as I have knee problems. Put the same gearing on a 700 wheel bike and it becomes 22/34 x 28. Not much higher than my low gear. As a comparison, my old road bike lowest gear was 34 inches which was bloom in hard work on hills.

I would look at a bike for frame size and geometry first and then consider gearing and wheel size
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Jimstar79
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by Jimstar79 »

Merry_Wanderer wrote:You can have V brakes as an alternative to cantilevers and depending on the rims you have, they will last many thousands of miles. You can also have very low gearing on a 'normal' sized wheel, not just a 26 inch. The thing that complicates matters is if you want STI combined gear shifters and brake levers like a lot of drop handlebar road bikes because these aren't compatible with mtb gearing or v brakes.

If you want drop handlebars and aren't fussed about STI's then you can have bar-end (gear) shifters and a standard brake lever. These 2 separate items are cheaper than STIs and more easily repaired or replaced. As an example of low gearing, my 26 inch wheeled Surly has a 44/32/22 chainrings and an 11-34 cassette which gives me as a low gear, 22/34 x 26 = 16. something inch low gear. I need this to spin up hills as I have knee problems. Put the same gearing on a 700 wheel bike and it becomes 22/34 x 28. Not much higher than my low gear. As a comparison, my old road bike lowest gear was 34 inches which was bloom in hard work on hills.

I would look at a bike for frame size and geometry first and then consider gearing and wheel size


You make some brilliant points here. I didn't realise that STI's weren't compatible with v-brakes, hmmm. I have seen what damage STI's can pick up from a simple crash (or should I say, getting 'doored' off my bike!). The right one was ruined and costly to replace (Ultegra). With the Dura Ace bar end shifter's costing £45-50 they look like a good thing to have on a long distance touring bike. I've never used them before but have read a lot of good things about them. I'd be prepared to sell the STI's off any bike I get and replace them with bar-ends (if this isn't too complicated to achieve).

Even if I get a 700cc/28 inch wheeled bike it is always possible to change the lower chainring and get an alternative cassette/sprockets to change the gearing - I often do this when tackling different passes in the Lake District and north Yorks and, to be honest, I still find them tough - it's that 3rd chainring and lowest gears that I need!!

I'm so glad that I opened this thread because there isn't anyone around me that knows anything about bikes and I was really getting in a pickle over these kinds of things.
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pwa
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by pwa »

For anyone planning a tour of places devoid of cycle shops I would question the use of disc brakes. Discs are notoriously prone to damage. They are not as robust as some might think. Hydraulic systems are a different technology to the cable operated systems most of us are able to get our heads around, so I would avoid these for tours away from easily available help.. Could you contemplate fixing a disc brake problem in the back end of beyond? For some the answer will be "yes", and for them this is a non-issue. I would be happier with the relatively easy-fix rim brakes I understand.
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Jimstar79
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by Jimstar79 »

I hear what you're saying - and you're totally right, of course.What I'm a bit worried about is the overall weight of the bike, luggage and me sitting on top of it all, going downhill at a considerable speed and then relying on v-brakes to slow me down quick enough. Cantilevers are good but the braking distance on my (8kg) road bike is still fairly large when descending at high speed, so I worry a bit about what it would be like on a 14kg bike with 25kg of luggage (of course I wouldn't be going as fast (or I hope not!)).

If I do end up with a bike using disk brakes (mechanical) I would definitely make sure that i know how to fully repair/replace them before I set off to go anywhere! This would probably result in having to carry extra tools, a few brake pads and a spare rotor or two. Saying that, I should be happy using v-brakes as they are easy to fix and replace. I already have a bit of experience replacing pads on disk brakes and it wasn't that difficult but a bit fidly - what else should I be wary of!?
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pwa
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by pwa »

You obviously have the right approach: you want to learn how to fix possible failures with your equipment before you set off. Some people remove discs during air / rail transit to avoid them getting bent.

25kg seems like a lot of baggage. Touring in Europe I always kept baggage down to about 15kg. That was with camping gear.

Extra weight does make for a bit more mass to stop, but not much more. I weigh 90kg (don't tell anyone). My tourer weighs maybe another 13kg. So adding 15kg to my bike will not produce a dramatic difference. And a bit of extra weight can help braking where traction is a problem. On my tandem (which does have a rear disc too) I can lock both wheels on a descent if I choose to using only the vee brakes. Good vees with good pads, adjusted properly, will give good stopping power.
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Jimstar79
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by Jimstar79 »

You're right, 25kg does sound excessive until I explain that my cosy armchair weighs in at a 18kg!! :D
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simonhill
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by simonhill »

Hills steep enough to have to worry about your brakes are few and far between. Remember if they are that bad you probably couldn't cycle up them and more importantly to the road builders, trucks couldn't get up them.

The biggest problem is normally your rims getting very hot on long descents. This can be overcome by modulating your brakes, or just stopping for a while.

A guy with discs once told me his got very hot on a long descent and started to fade. Don't know if this is true, but it is a bit worrying.

I have just cycled a couple of short 17% ers and these are not the norm. I was pretty close to getting off as they were almost too steep to handle the bike round the tight corners. It wasn't my (XT V) brakes that were the problem.

Touring is not about flying down hills as fast as you can go, but rather about protecting you and your gear for tomorrow and the next day.

My Surly is not a disc version.
Merry_Wanderer
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by Merry_Wanderer »

I opted for a 26 inch wheel bike because my wife's tourer has 26 inch wheels and it means taking only one set of tubes and one spare tyre, spokes etc. Her bike has rim V brakes though and we both have dynamo hubs on the front wheel - used for lights only. We have only occasionally toured and these bikes suit us. There are however, hundreds more experienced folk on this forum who can advise about their different experiences
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Jimstar79
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by Jimstar79 »

Found this great looking Ridgeback Panorama on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RIDGEBACK-PANORAMA-TOURING-TOURER-BIKE-CYCLE-56CM-vgc-ONE-YEAR-OLD-EXTRAS/171683701161?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29165%26meid%3D657097efde0649d99ba7ae56db0b20fd%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D221689165720

Looks like a great bike but would a 56cm frame be large enough for someone who is about 181-2cm tall (5ft 11'')

Thanks for all your tips and advice - I am finding it all very useful!

PS: Erm, on Evans website it says the bike weighs 30kg! Can this be right?

Ah, it should read 30lbs!!
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race."
H. G. Wells quotes
pwa
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by pwa »

On the subject of braking with rim brakes, the important thing on long descents (eg Alps) is to have the courage to allow your speed to build up, then brake hard for the next bend. Rims heat up most when you are constantly on the brakes trying to keep the speed down all the time. If you are 2km down a 10km descent and you think your rims may be getting too hot, just pull over and (carefully) touch them. If your skin comes off I would pull over and let them cool. As previously said, its not a common problem and its easily handled.

In the 1990s I managed to blow a rear tyre on an alpine descent at 40mph due to keeping my brake on too long. Braking harder, for a shorter period is the key.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by Tangled Metal »

In the bike shops I've been in all the racks show 25kg max load. One bike I looked at came with metal mudguards with a rack that uses the guards for extra strength, that had 45kg max loading. Thorn cycles do a tourer capable of handling 45kg and use a tubus rack IIRC. I'd think for most bikes 25kg on one wheel is enough.

I'm looking for a commuter/tourer/general road and easy off road leisure riding. Been looking at gravel bikes or adventure road bikes, others call faux CXers. Like of genesis cdf or Croix de fer. The tour de fer looks a good bike. It's a cdf with longer chainstay length I think. Not sure if it's the best for you but I'm tempted. My LBS is a bit sniffy about Dawes. The bike mechanic said he hates them from the maintenance side because every one he has to work on has been in a bad state. He doesn't think they're any good nowadays. The sales guy agreed. Said their boss bought a load expecting them to sell but they didn't. Now rotting in a warehouse apparently but could still bring them in if I insisted.

I'm debating getting a tourer or a gravel bike. Purpose commuting but aim to tour with it. Plan to check out ridgeback bikes. Their world range of tourers look good to me but I don't know enough.

Wheelbase is a decent shop but I get the impression unless you have over £1000 to spend they've not got much I feel. Limited tourer range. I'm from north Lancs so been looking for a new bike myself so checked out most or all bike shops in the area. Not many tourers stocked if those adventure road bikes or CXers are not your thing.
stu57
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Re: Advice sought on choosing a touring bike

Post by stu57 »

Jimstar79 wrote:I'm going to start looking at 26" wheel touring bikes - just out of curiosity - but so far I have only come across Surly and one or two others (like Thorn) but these are just out of my price range. It seems that people who own Surly's really love their bikes!! I'll have a look around for second-hand ones.


There are some new options out there this year -

http://www.ridgeback.co.uk/bike/expedition

http://dawescycles.com/product/coast-2-coast-26/
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