pwa wrote:I think we need to let people know why drops are preferred by many: the fact that they put your hands in a more ergonomically acceptable position (over the brakes) than straight bars, reducing wrist problems on long rides. Straight bars require bar ends to give a similar position, but they take your hands away from the brakes. I would hate to do a long tour with straight bars.
Good point. I'll keep mine simple bearing in mind my last bike had flat bars with bar ends. OK but not as good as drops. Here are my reasons:
1/ I snapped the end off both my radius and ulna when I was 17 in a motorcycle prang. Now I'm 40, certain positions irritate my wrist and when it's cold can throb. I benefit from having a multitude of positions with drops.
2/ Being a gardener by profession I am lucky in that I have a very strong upper body. I am also short. At 5'5" bending over or being curled up is not a discomfort.
3/ My long hair and beard act as air-brakes so I need all the help I can get.
The American market who buy Surly DTs and LHTs must have reasons. Image perhaps?
its about variety of hand position? drop bars provide you with aleast 5 differnt postions for differnt types of cycling fast to slow. By adding bar ends to flat bars you are trying to emulate drops in some respects? The worst type of handle bars were those on the old roadsters?
This may be true if you are symetrical, I'm not so it's butterfly bars for me which have any number of options for position. To the OP, Ridgeback have been making a 26" tourer for a while now. World Expedition.
What I said was that people WANT flat bars on a bike like this.
You are all doing what has brought British industry to its knees over the last 50 years. You are telling the people what they need then providing it and then wondering why it doesn't sell!
If the hand position and access to the brakes is so important why do I see most riders on drops, not riding on the drops, not riding on the hoods, but riding on the flat tops? This always used to amuse me, people swear by drops, but looking at pictures in Cycle, most were on the tops.
I ride with hands on drop when going fast (tailwind or road with too much trafic so "i do it as a sport") I ride with hands on the hoods mainly in the moutain,going up. This is the most enjoyable cycling. i ride on the flat bar when going slow and relax. As in cities.
I have a bike with flats and a bike with drops. I prefer the drops. Its personal though. I would have thought though that Dawes would have done their market research and produced the bike that would sell best in its largest market (the UK). That's drops. On the continent it would have been flats. Meh.
Anyway. With the re-introduction of the ultra galaxy ti I wonder if you could get these for a much larger discount...
With my drop bars I rarely use the drops themselves and might well have sawn them off if it were not for the fact that I use bar end shifters. Mostly my hands move around the tops of the brakes (on the hoods), but for short periods I also use the top of the straight section of the bars. But because I have changed stems to give the reach I want I find the hoods just the right distance from the saddle, and I find the straight section of the bars a little too close to me to rest on for long periods. I suspect that people with drops who spend a lot of time on the tops of the bars (i.e. close to the stem) have too long a stem and find it a bit of a stretch to the hoods.
On my Thorn tandem I have straight bars (cut short, the way I like them) with Ergon grips and long bar ends. It is as comfy and varied as I can make straight bars and it is okay, but drops are better. Butterfly bars (at least the ones I've seen) are way too wide.
I use a 26 inch wheel VSF FahrradManufaktur T400. It is a mainstream manufactured 26 inch tourer with flat bars and is available with a number of different options for levels of equipment. Mine has a Shimano XT group set an has proved to be ultra reliable and day long comfortable. These bikes are available readiy in Europe, over the Internet and at several retailers in Britain. It is true that I can go faster on my Galaxy but I've been able to go wherever I wanted to go on the T400, or rather I haven't found anywhere I couldn't go yet.
pwa wrote:It is as comfy and varied as I can make straight bars and it is okay, but drops are better.
That is my experience too. I have 2 with straight bars and bar ends but find that after only 30 miles or so it is very uncomfortable for my hands and shoulders. I have 5 with drops which are comfortable for very much longer than that. I seldom use the drops but use every conceivable alternative position regularly.
However - if drops/straights/butterfly/bull horn/ape hangers work for you then keep doing it.
Wheel size - 700C for me but I tend to tour in western Europe so availability if needed is not a problem.
simonhill wrote:What I said was that people WANT flat bars on a bike like this.
You are all doing what has brought British industry to its knees over the last 50 years. You are telling the people what they need then providing it and then wondering why it doesn't sell!
If the hand position and access to the brakes is so important why do I see most riders on drops, not riding on the drops, not riding on the hoods, but riding on the flat tops? This always used to amuse me, people swear by drops, but looking at pictures in Cycle, most were on the tops.
I agree - I think Dawes have missed a trick by not doing a 'butterfly' bar version and axing the Tsunami (if they didn't want too many models). As for the '50 years' I couldn't agree more - it's what had me (and all the kids around me) - at the age of 12 - riding the same gearing as Eddy Merckx or falling off 'Choppers'...
38 years of cycletouring, 33 years of running cycling holidays, 8 years of running a campsite for cyclists - there's a pattern here...
I can understand some preferring flat bars and agree a number of years ago this was the preference for new bikes. I am not sure flat bars were the only reason for the decline in the UK cycle industry, poor quality I feel was a contributory factor.
Currently their appears to be a renaissance in drop handle bar bikes, with the main US manufacturers pushing out 'adventure' bikes with drops. The growth of cycling on TV (track and TdeF), in my view, has made people question whether they are proper cyclist if they don't have drops! I am not sure whether the riders get the benefit of the drops (but I would also say that about the ridiculous gearing on most bikes for the occasional weekend warrior), but this does appear to be on trend at the moment. Good luck to Dawes if they can get this combo right.
Personally I prefer drops; with a set of ITM Marathons on my tourer, so probably around 30 different hand position on those!
stuartg wrote:I can understand some preferring flat bars and agree a number of years ago this was the preference for new bikes. I am not sure flat bars were the only reason for the decline in the UK cycle industry, poor quality I feel was a contributory factor.
Currently their appears to be a renaissance in drop handle bar bikes, with the main US manufacturers pushing out 'adventure' bikes with drops. The growth of cycling on TV (track and TdeF), in my view, has made people question whether they are proper cyclist if they don't have drops! I am not sure whether the riders get the benefit of the drops (but I would also say that about the ridiculous gearing on most bikes for the occasional weekend warrior), but this does appear to be on trend at the moment. Good luck to Dawes if they can get this combo right.
Personally I prefer drops; with a set of ITM Marathons on my tourer, so probably around 30 different hand position on those!
I have always had the opposite view to that, the bikes were so well made that you never had to buy another one. Raleigh were sending stuff out of Nottingham thirty years ago that is still going strong and (in my opinion) better than a lot of stuff in this thread with the triple figure price tags.
Back to the original post, I'm firmly on the side of 700c (about32mm) tyres for lanes / reasonable cycle tracks, with 26" for those (not me) who see themselves doing proper off-road routes. I'm happy with 26" on my tandem because of the extra mass, but I wouldn't want 26" on a solo bike destined for road use. When I tour it is in Western Europe (France, Italy, Switzerland, etc), not Nepal. I'm not going to change from that, so 700c is the best option for me. Happily, some manufacturers now offer otherwise identical bikes in 26" or 700c. You pay your money and you take your choice.
Most goods nowadays are disposable and we live in a disposable culture, if it breaks or the colour not right - bin it! To be fair the quality of some of the older bikes, is amazing compared to newer models. I do feel that a lot of the UK manufacturers tried to compete with overseas manufacturers on price. This meant movement of manufacturing overseas (which I don't have a problem with) but poor quality controls, design and materials (which I do have a problem with).
The manufacturers that have done well, know their market - just look at Brooks, you can argue they are overpriced but they are good quality (despite a slip up with overseas manufacturing) and they know their market. I think Dawes are calling this one right.
stuartg wrote:Most goods nowadays are disposable and we live in a disposable culture, if it breaks or the colour not right - bin it! To be fair the quality of some of the older bikes, is amazing compared to newer models. I do feel that a lot of the UK manufacturers tried to compete with overseas manufacturers on price. This meant movement of manufacturing overseas (which I don't have a problem with) but poor quality controls, design and materials (which I do have a problem with).
The manufacturers that have done well, know their market - just look at Brooks, you can argue they are overpriced but they are good quality (despite a slip up with overseas manufacturing) and they know their market. I think Dawes are calling this one right.
To be fair the quality of frame building is much better now - the old Orbit and Dawes frames I used to buy 25 years ago were frequently poorly aligned and I've had to file many a dropout to fit the wheel properly. Since they've gone to Far Eastern/Eastern European manufacture all the frames I've received have been spot-on - sad but true - wish it were otherwise...
38 years of cycletouring, 33 years of running cycling holidays, 8 years of running a campsite for cyclists - there's a pattern here...