Rotterdam > Istanbul - Which bike?
Rotterdam > Istanbul - Which bike?
Hello, first poster here and with the ... typical ... question I'm sure you're all bored of.
History
Haven't been on a bicycle since I came off my MTB in a forest and got concussion about 8 years ago... or was it 9... can't remember
Plan
Cycle tour from Rotterdam to Istanbul setting off 1st May 2015.
Bike Option 1
• Mountain Bike - Trek 4500 - 1999 - similar to this but with plastic pedals: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7180/6907693851_417f2101b7_z.jpg
• This bike has been sat in my cellar since 2007 and I'm pretty sure it'll have degraded.
• Estimating spending £100 on a service, £50-75 on new parts and tyres.
• I'll also need new more substantial pedals, seat, pannier racks, grips.
• After all this I'll still only have a mountain bike which obviously isn't specifically for touring.
• Approx price £250
Bike Option 2
• This http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/products/revolution-country-traveller-15?bct=browse%2frevolution-products%2frevolution-bikes
• Price £550 inc a decent set of pedals.
There's a big gap in price here and on a small budget of about £2000 for the whole trip, over 25% would be spent on just the bike. Never mind all the camping and storage equipment I've still to purchase, even if I get second hand / free / cheap equipment I could be looking at £100 for that.
When I factor in insurance, ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, initial food, some clothing and bits and pieces my £2000 budget gets quickly smaller.
Is the new bike really going to make such a big difference that it's silly not to consider it?
This is a big trip for anyone, let alone me with no experience, fitness or knowledge.
Will sticking with an improved MTB be a huge detriment to the experience, should I just get it fettled (Yorkshire word) and get out there?
Also there's no option of putting the tour back and saving for a new bike, I'm too eager to get out there and fear I'll never do it if I don't go soon.
Thanks in advance for advice / comments / feedback.
History
Haven't been on a bicycle since I came off my MTB in a forest and got concussion about 8 years ago... or was it 9... can't remember
Plan
Cycle tour from Rotterdam to Istanbul setting off 1st May 2015.
Bike Option 1
• Mountain Bike - Trek 4500 - 1999 - similar to this but with plastic pedals: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7180/6907693851_417f2101b7_z.jpg
• This bike has been sat in my cellar since 2007 and I'm pretty sure it'll have degraded.
• Estimating spending £100 on a service, £50-75 on new parts and tyres.
• I'll also need new more substantial pedals, seat, pannier racks, grips.
• After all this I'll still only have a mountain bike which obviously isn't specifically for touring.
• Approx price £250
Bike Option 2
• This http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/products/revolution-country-traveller-15?bct=browse%2frevolution-products%2frevolution-bikes
• Price £550 inc a decent set of pedals.
There's a big gap in price here and on a small budget of about £2000 for the whole trip, over 25% would be spent on just the bike. Never mind all the camping and storage equipment I've still to purchase, even if I get second hand / free / cheap equipment I could be looking at £100 for that.
When I factor in insurance, ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, initial food, some clothing and bits and pieces my £2000 budget gets quickly smaller.
Is the new bike really going to make such a big difference that it's silly not to consider it?
This is a big trip for anyone, let alone me with no experience, fitness or knowledge.
Will sticking with an improved MTB be a huge detriment to the experience, should I just get it fettled (Yorkshire word) and get out there?
Also there's no option of putting the tour back and saving for a new bike, I'm too eager to get out there and fear I'll never do it if I don't go soon.
Thanks in advance for advice / comments / feedback.
Last edited by ndxcc on 14 Feb 2015, 3:45pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: My knackered old MTB vs Brand new tourer
Whether you *need* the new bike is a hard one to answer. Will it be better? Maybe, maybe not. If you found your MTB comfortable then it might be a better option than getting used to a new bike, especially with only a few months until you leave. But maybe the new bike will handle better or have more reliable components. When touring you come across people on shiny new bikes but also plenty on ordinary run-of-the-mill bikes they've had for years. Last year I met a guy riding from Finland to Morocco on a rusty step-over bike with no gears. He'd already cycled 2000 miles so I reckon he got all the way.
As a plan C - perhaps see what you can get second hand for the same price as your MTB service + parts? You might find you can get something a bit more touring specific for the same amount of money (or hopefully even less!).
Enjoy your tour. Sounds like a great adventure!
As a plan C - perhaps see what you can get second hand for the same price as your MTB service + parts? You might find you can get something a bit more touring specific for the same amount of money (or hopefully even less!).
Enjoy your tour. Sounds like a great adventure!
Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
Take the atb to a decent shop who should be able to give you prices for what needs doing and advise on what you need and indeed if its possible. What you don't want to do is set off with a bike with parts that have seen better days that may fail on your trip. I'd be wanting new chain, cassette - possibly even chainrings as a minimum along with suitable road tyres.
The new tourer would certainly do the trip, maybe a with a bit less effort on your part, almost certainly with more comfort. Buy it now so any teething issues are sorted before you depart, clearly with a new bike the drivetrain shouldn't need attention until at least mid trip (consider upgrading the cassette though) but you will quite likely need to replace the tyres en route.
The new tourer would certainly do the trip, maybe a with a bit less effort on your part, almost certainly with more comfort. Buy it now so any teething issues are sorted before you depart, clearly with a new bike the drivetrain shouldn't need attention until at least mid trip (consider upgrading the cassette though) but you will quite likely need to replace the tyres en route.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
You can tour on anything. But there are some disadvantages to using your mountain bike.
-it won't take full mudguards (if you use it, include the cost of mudguards, otherwise you & your stuff will get wetter than necessary in rain)
-you'll need to lock out front suspension, at least going up hills. With weight on the back, it may not be any help, anyway
-if you don't have bar ends, you probably want to add some for additional hand positions
That said, I've done many miles touring on an MTB based hybrid, so if you're comfortable on the bike, it may be your best option. It may be possible to buy something more suitable second hand for a similar amount, but it will require some careful and knowledgeable shopping, or you may end up with soemthing unsuitable.
Good luck, and enjoy the tour
-it won't take full mudguards (if you use it, include the cost of mudguards, otherwise you & your stuff will get wetter than necessary in rain)
-you'll need to lock out front suspension, at least going up hills. With weight on the back, it may not be any help, anyway
-if you don't have bar ends, you probably want to add some for additional hand positions
That said, I've done many miles touring on an MTB based hybrid, so if you're comfortable on the bike, it may be your best option. It may be possible to buy something more suitable second hand for a similar amount, but it will require some careful and knowledgeable shopping, or you may end up with soemthing unsuitable.
Good luck, and enjoy the tour
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
I think you would need to allocate the best part of £90 for rack and pannier, of which say £40 would be for the rack. You can get away with cheap panniers, but the rack needs to be a decent quality.
I can see three issues with using panniers with your mtb frame. Taking the least serious first:
You have wishbone seat stays and the upper mounting points are very close together on the single tube above the join. I reckon this can only be less stable than if they were separated by four inches or so on separate legs. Having said that, I have a similar frame,I have had a rack on it, but only to carry waterproofs and lunch strapped to the top. I understand that my model was, at one point, regarded as suitable for a touring conversion - but I guess much depends on the scale of the tour. You'll be going a fair way...
The second point applies to all mtb frames. the chain stays tend to be a lot shorter than those on a purpose built touring frame. This results in the bottom of the panniers being a lot closer to your heels. No one can tell you if you will get away with it, there are too many variables - length of cranks, your pedalling style, size of your feet, shape of the panniers... You will need to experiment. If in doubt, err on the side of caution. Having to dodge a pannier with every pedal stroke - No!
You have suspension forks. They don't look tremendously sophisticated - IMO you would need to be able to lock them, ie. no bounce!
There is a general issue with using suspension forks on the road - people tend to notice themselves bobbing up and down instead of making progress when they are pedalling hard. It happens off road too, obviously, but there it is compensated for by the shock absorption. In addition, loaded panniers will make the bike tail heavy, or more importantly, light at the front. This is going to make the handling even worse. You could swap the forks out, but that's likely to cost another ton...
It looks as if you have a splendid trip set up. Your bike isn't really suitable without significant outlay. The country traveller has a decent reputation and is only going to be a couple of hundred more (plus panniers). Get new bike. Sell existing bike to cover at least some of the additional cost. Do it in that order if you can, and do it as soon as possible. You need to get out and do some miles.
If you are reasonably fit and healthy I'm sure you will cope. But you will enjoy your trip a lot more if you can acclimatise your body to the necessary posture and acclimatise your backside to the saddle before you set out. Its hours on bike rather than miles or mph that you need.
HTH
For the record, one of my bikes is a converted mtb, but it had traditional seat stays, no suspension and I was lucky with the heel clearance - with small panniers!
I can see three issues with using panniers with your mtb frame. Taking the least serious first:
You have wishbone seat stays and the upper mounting points are very close together on the single tube above the join. I reckon this can only be less stable than if they were separated by four inches or so on separate legs. Having said that, I have a similar frame,I have had a rack on it, but only to carry waterproofs and lunch strapped to the top. I understand that my model was, at one point, regarded as suitable for a touring conversion - but I guess much depends on the scale of the tour. You'll be going a fair way...
The second point applies to all mtb frames. the chain stays tend to be a lot shorter than those on a purpose built touring frame. This results in the bottom of the panniers being a lot closer to your heels. No one can tell you if you will get away with it, there are too many variables - length of cranks, your pedalling style, size of your feet, shape of the panniers... You will need to experiment. If in doubt, err on the side of caution. Having to dodge a pannier with every pedal stroke - No!
You have suspension forks. They don't look tremendously sophisticated - IMO you would need to be able to lock them, ie. no bounce!
There is a general issue with using suspension forks on the road - people tend to notice themselves bobbing up and down instead of making progress when they are pedalling hard. It happens off road too, obviously, but there it is compensated for by the shock absorption. In addition, loaded panniers will make the bike tail heavy, or more importantly, light at the front. This is going to make the handling even worse. You could swap the forks out, but that's likely to cost another ton...
It looks as if you have a splendid trip set up. Your bike isn't really suitable without significant outlay. The country traveller has a decent reputation and is only going to be a couple of hundred more (plus panniers). Get new bike. Sell existing bike to cover at least some of the additional cost. Do it in that order if you can, and do it as soon as possible. You need to get out and do some miles.
If you are reasonably fit and healthy I'm sure you will cope. But you will enjoy your trip a lot more if you can acclimatise your body to the necessary posture and acclimatise your backside to the saddle before you set out. Its hours on bike rather than miles or mph that you need.
HTH
For the record, one of my bikes is a converted mtb, but it had traditional seat stays, no suspension and I was lucky with the heel clearance - with small panniers!
Trying to retain enough fitness to grow old disgracefully... That hasn't changed!
Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
Touring bikes are not called that for nothing. Sell the MTB, add the £250 you were going to spend (plus hidden extras once you take it to the shop) plus the rack and you will almost be at the £550 for a proper, well thought out, well regarded on this forum machine.
Do it now, get some miles in and make sure you have long conversation with Edinburgh about what size to buy.....if you are planning to spend long hours in the saddle ask them to put an extra spacer in, below the handlebars, because it will raise the bars up a bit and you will not be quite so bent over, ie your back won't ache as much. Have a good trip.
Do it now, get some miles in and make sure you have long conversation with Edinburgh about what size to buy.....if you are planning to spend long hours in the saddle ask them to put an extra spacer in, below the handlebars, because it will raise the bars up a bit and you will not be quite so bent over, ie your back won't ache as much. Have a good trip.
Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
A bike with drop handlebars can feel very different from one with straight bars. I like both, but if I'm riding all day, every day, I tend to choose the bike with the straight bars. You want to be sure that you'll be comfortable with drops before committing yourself.
Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
nirakaro wrote:A bike with drop handlebars can feel very different from one with straight bars. I like both, but if I'm riding all day, every day, I tend to choose the bike with the straight bars. You want to be sure that you'll be comfortable with drops before committing yourself.
I am exactly the opposite. I prefer that advantages of more available hand positions, but they do take some getting used to.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
Having toured with drop bars, straight bars with bar ends and bullhorn bars, I now stick with bullhorn bars. By far the most comfortable on a long day
Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
Wow thanks guys, I didn't expect this kind of response!
I've considered the options over night; with your responses and speaking with my dad (who just found out about this trip last night) I've decided to go with the Tourer, it seems silly to try and 'hack' an existing bike to do the job. Maybe if the tour was much much smaller it'd be ok, but this is a significant expedition which is still scaring me slightly, I'd prefer to do it on a bike that I was 100% confident with and was designed for this exact reason.
Checking it out tomorrow night and hopefully have it purchased by the weekend or next week.
Again, thanks for your responses and when I start looking into my Rotterdam > Istanbul trip I'll get back to you and keep you updated!
I've considered the options over night; with your responses and speaking with my dad (who just found out about this trip last night) I've decided to go with the Tourer, it seems silly to try and 'hack' an existing bike to do the job. Maybe if the tour was much much smaller it'd be ok, but this is a significant expedition which is still scaring me slightly, I'd prefer to do it on a bike that I was 100% confident with and was designed for this exact reason.
Checking it out tomorrow night and hopefully have it purchased by the weekend or next week.
Again, thanks for your responses and when I start looking into my Rotterdam > Istanbul trip I'll get back to you and keep you updated!
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Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
For me it's a bit of a no brainier, having toured on all sorts of bikes including Brompton an Mountain bikes. I do not like to be let down by the bike abroad, my old trek was binned in Spain with a cracked frame. Plus the comfort and convenience of a tourer always pays off on a longer trip . A tourer every time.
Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
There is another option to consider, £550 would be you a very very decent second-hand tourer, especially if bought from someone on this forum.
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Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
Whatever bike you get, the most important thing will be to get some miles in between now and your tour, as DaveP mentioned. If you've never toured before, it can be helpful to have a couple of weekend 'dress rehearsal' trips, fully loaded, to a campsite a day's ride from where you live.
Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
Either option could be made to work, as others have pointed out. I suppose you should consider what you want your collection of bikes to look like when you return. Are you more likely to make use of that mtb if you have put some road tyres, better pedals, rack etc on it? If so, money spent on the bike you already have could be money well spent.
If you have any serious mechanical problems on your trip it is most likely to be to do with the wheels. Make sure your wheels are problem free before you set off.
If you have any serious mechanical problems on your trip it is most likely to be to do with the wheels. Make sure your wheels are problem free before you set off.
Re: Rotterdam > Istanbul - knackered old MTB vs Brand new to
I toured for years on an MTB, but I bought it (cheap) new and kept upgrading it. The sort of work I would want to do to your bike makes going for the Edinburgh a no brainer.
Other things on your MTB that I would be concerned about are bottom bracket, headset, wheel bearings, wheels themselves, etc, etc.
As said, get the new bike asap and ride it as much as poss. Although be aware that this may well mean you might want to replace a few part worn things before you go eg chain, tyres, brake blocks, etc. (can keep as spares).
Don't go with cheap panniers! Most people overload their panniers and they take an amazing amount of stress and strain (dead weight being bounced about all day). The last thing you need is trying to fix failing panniers.
I know there is a certain thrill in thinking of the final destination, but this can also make the trip seem rather daunting. Just think about by he first week or two and let the rest just follow on.
Ride and enjoy.
Other things on your MTB that I would be concerned about are bottom bracket, headset, wheel bearings, wheels themselves, etc, etc.
As said, get the new bike asap and ride it as much as poss. Although be aware that this may well mean you might want to replace a few part worn things before you go eg chain, tyres, brake blocks, etc. (can keep as spares).
Don't go with cheap panniers! Most people overload their panniers and they take an amazing amount of stress and strain (dead weight being bounced about all day). The last thing you need is trying to fix failing panniers.
I know there is a certain thrill in thinking of the final destination, but this can also make the trip seem rather daunting. Just think about by he first week or two and let the rest just follow on.
Ride and enjoy.