Default tourer?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
reohn2
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by reohn2 »

RonK wrote:Ah, so some of you have discovered I have a Sabbath Silk Route.

Your response presupposes I had a preference for Ti. In fact I had never ridden a Ti bike and I knew nothing about Ti other than what I could read on the internet. And since there are precious few other tourer offerings locally other than the Vivente World Randonneur, the best option was to buy a frame and build my own. I took a risk on the Sabbath frame which was at the time new on the market but affordable. The punt payed off in spades, and I'll be departing with it for a third tour in March.

To conclude I have a preference for Ti is not correct. I have a preference for bikes that satisfy my requirements.

So what makes the Sabbath a good bike?
And what makes the LHT a slug?

So far as the LHT is concerned, it's a frame made in Asia from 4130 tubing and assembled with reasonable but inexpensive components. How can it possibly be better that any other similar constructed bike. The answer is quite simply that it can't be and it isn't

I agree about the frameset there are a few similar as I posted up thread.But comparing it to the Sabbath what are the differences in the two framesets?

The local product I mentioned earlier (the VWR) is a similarly constructed bike, made in Asia from the same 4130 tubing, same geometry and design even down to the spare spoke holders, and at a guess made in the same factory, but it has a superior component and feature list which includes a disc brakes, dynamo hub and lighting, mudguards and Tubus rack. At around the same price it beats the LHT hands down for value, and is selling strongly here. I recommended one for my brother, he's very happy with it.

That sounds like a bargain,I'll look them up.
Last edited by reohn2 on 22 Dec 2014, 9:49am, edited 1 time in total.
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mrjemm
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by mrjemm »

PH wrote:Without too much research these would be on the shortlist, I'm not looking for another bike...
Hewitt Cheviot (My current steel tourer and I have no intention of changing it)
VO Campeur
SOMA Saga
Ridgeback Panorama
Spa Tourer
Some of the Jamis bikes sold by Evans
Genesis Tour de Fer
And lastly, the Surly Crosscheck, I know a couple of people who tour on them and rate them.


Have you seen the pics of the new Disc VO?

Image
http://velo-orange.blogspot.co.uk/2014/ ... llany.html

Those dropouts suggest same factory as the Saga Disc to me.
Image
http://www.somafab.com/archives/product ... -frame-set

If wanting to consider CX type frames in this list (as per Cross Check, being kinda pseudo CX themed), then the Soma Double/Triple Cross would be nice.

With regards to the Cross Check though, and in extension other CX themed bikes, I'd hazard a suggestion that they're less widespread due to them being a bit more focussed- the geo being less expedition oriented. Apart from anything else, the chainstays are shorter- as I've previously mentioned somewhere around here, am struggling with mudguards for the Straggler, which is essentially a disc Cross Check, which doesn't bode well for a prolonged tour, surely? OK, that is hobbit size frame, and larger sizes don't suffer so, but still, with bigger frames come bigger feet, and things could get interferingish down there perhaps.
reohn2
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by reohn2 »

RonK
According to Vivente's site their WT isn't better specced than the LHT,I'd say their about the same,but it does come 'fully loaded'(quality dynamo lighting,Tubus racks and m/guards) and seems like a nice bike.
Their site tells me I can have one shipped to me in the UK for £1820(no shipping cost).
That's not a bargain,I could buy a DT @ £1100 from here:- http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/34 ... -bike.html and 'load' it myself to the same spec or better ie; dynamo,racks and m/guards etc,for an extra £400.
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reohn2
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by reohn2 »

VO Disc,the rear seatstay yolk and front fork crown look a bit PlanetX ie; industrial to my eye :shock:
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mrjemm
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by mrjemm »

reohn2 wrote:VO Disc,the rear seatstay yolk and front fork crown look a bit PlanetX ie; industrial to my eye :shock:


Agreed. I really like the seatstay yolk on my P7, which is sort of similar, but this is just not right to my eyes. The forks are also like the old P7 (F8?) segmented forks, yet straight and with the Salsa Anything mounts added. All bit of a hodge-podge bodge (hotch-potch botch?) to me. Not your usual VO at all, but I think their 'Crazy Bar' (take on H-bars, I suspect) pointed at a slight diversification happening.

I just had a look at the Vivente site, and in that they don't show the bikes until you click on bike images, hints at them selling the 'idea' (along with the flags and fonts at the top) more than the bike, and perhaps low confidence in the bikes' visual look. Likewise, that there's really only 1 pic of each, and those slathered in accessories so you can't really see the bike supports this. Perhaps it's an operation started on a low-mid budget by an enthusiast/traveller though, which the 'mechanic's corner' hints at to me, so I should not judge too harshly. Good on'em.
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TrevA
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by TrevA »

Perhaps this thread should be retitled Default Expedition Tourer? I've never seen an LHT in the flesh. ride with your local Ctc section and you'll find that Galaxies, Panoramas, Thorns and Hewitts still dominate.
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PH
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by PH »

Sweep wrote:
PH wrote:
reohn2 wrote:So far we've one person complaining it's a 'slug' but until we know what he's it's comparing it to we don't know how valid that complaint is,everyone else seems to be happy with theirs,which seems to back up the fact that it's a very good tourer.


The answer is in his blog, very nice bikes they are too.
I fond the LHT to be, well not a slug, but certainly very steady (Yes...subjective) for the riding I was using it for I liked that. The Hewitt by comparison (Even more subjective) feels quite sprightly. The hard facts from the computer showed I was just as slow on either :oops:

Would you reckon that the Hewitt would be the equal of the LHT for expedition touring?


Depends on your expedition. If you were planning on spending months in the most desolate of areas with unmade roads and having to carry several days supply of food and water, plus the kit to cover all eventualities, the Hewitt might be up to it but IMO the 26” version of the LHT would be a better bet. I think that’s part of the dream that the LHT sells, for the vast majority of cycle tourers the reality is different, a couple of week at a time, not that far off the beaten track, for which the Hewitt is more than enough.
The other sad part of the reality is that for every touring mile I do, there's a hundred miles riding to work and the shop and out with the CTC and... For most people the touring mileage will be a small part of the bikes use, they'd be better off choosing a bike based on that fact.
RonK
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by RonK »

reohn2 wrote:RonK
According to Vivente's site their WT isn't better specced than the LHT,I'd say their about the same,but it does come 'fully loaded'(quality dynamo lighting,Tubus racks and m/guards) and seems like a nice bike.
Their site tells me I can have one shipped to me in the UK for £1820(no shipping cost).
That's not a bargain,I could buy a DT @ £1100 from here:- http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/34 ... -bike.html and 'load' it myself to the same spec or better ie; dynamo,racks and m/guards etc,for an extra £400.

A DT here costs $2200 - the same price as the VWR but with none of the extras. In local prices, retrofitting an SP dynamo hub, B&M lighting, mudguards, sidestand and a Tubus Logo rack would add another $1000.

And definitely a superior spec with Sugino crankset vs Andel, Nitto Noodle bars vs PMT, Schwalbe Marathon vs Conti Tour Ride etcetera...
The theory is simple: a) cycling is inherently fun, and b) the less weight you carry, the more fun it is.

Tour Journals, Articles and Blog: Whispering Wheels
RonK
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by RonK »

reohn2 wrote:
RonK wrote:Ah, so some of you have discovered I have a Sabbath Silk Route.

Your response presupposes I had a preference for Ti. In fact I had never ridden a Ti bike and I knew nothing about Ti other than what I could read on the internet. And since there are precious few other tourer offerings locally other than the Vivente World Randonneur, the best option was to buy a frame and build my own. I took a risk on the Sabbath frame which was at the time new on the market but affordable. The punt payed off in spades, and I'll be departing with it for a third tour in March.

To conclude I have a preference for Ti is not correct. I have a preference for bikes that satisfy my requirements.

So what makes the Sabbath a good bike?
And what makes the LHT a slug?

So far as the LHT is concerned, it's a frame made in Asia from 4130 tubing and assembled with reasonable but inexpensive components. How can it possibly be better that any other similar constructed bike. The answer is quite simply that it can't be and it isn't

I agree about the frameset there are a few similar as I posted up thread.But comparing it to the Sabbath what are the differences in the two framesets?

The local product I mentioned earlier (the VWR) is a similarly constructed bike, made in Asia from the same 4130 tubing, same geometry and design even down to the spare spoke holders, and at a guess made in the same factory, but it has a superior component and feature list which includes a disc brakes, dynamo hub and lighting, mudguards and Tubus rack. At around the same price it beats the LHT hands down for value, and is selling strongly here. I recommended one for my brother, he's very happy with it.

That sounds like a bargain,I'll look them up.


I've already told you what makes the LHT a slug - I found it a dull, unresponsive, unrewarding ride.

I never made a direct comparison with the Sabbath - I didn't even know about at the time I decided the LHT had to go, and had no idea what it would ride like until many months later. Suffice to say the Sabbath is two kilograms lighter, smooth, responsive and "glides" (the best way I can express the sensation) beautifully for the effort input - so yes, it is a very rewarding ride.

It wasn't my first choice either - that was a Dawes Ultra Galaxy, and I spent some considerable effort trying to buy a bike from the psychopath at Spa Cycles, but he just didn't want to sell me a bike. I stumbled across the Fat Birds site by accident and ended up buying a Sabbath frame.
Last edited by RonK on 22 Dec 2014, 12:55pm, edited 2 times in total.
The theory is simple: a) cycling is inherently fun, and b) the less weight you carry, the more fun it is.

Tour Journals, Articles and Blog: Whispering Wheels
Dudley Manlove
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by Dudley Manlove »

As others have said, I think the reason for all those LHT is just the US bias of the site. I've seen maybe 1 LHT over here in the UK. I've seen more Thorns than anything - at least double of all other tourers combined - but then I'm living down in the SW and I have a hunch with SJS on the doorstep they're even more common. I guess other brands might be more popular up north.
mercalia
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by mercalia »

Cant say I have seen a LHT in London.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by al_yrpal »

Sounds like the LHT is accurately named. Its obviously a very solid load lugger, not very lively, stiff and sober which is why I never bought one. Our LBS always has one on display, but no Galaxies. But I suspect thats because of bike shop margins, not Galaxy's popularity.
There are Galaxys and Thorns all over the place around here. The Salsa Vaya I ride often gets attention, even a couple of times in France last Spring. I find its a bit more sassy than the Galaxy I once had. I think the Galaxy is still THE Classic default tourer in the UK. In Germany and Holland they all ride bikes resembling Panzers and have bulging calf muscles as a result, even the women! No Galaxies or LHTs there.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
reohn2
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by reohn2 »

RonK wrote:
reohn2 wrote:RonK
According to Vivente's site their WT isn't better specced than the LHT,I'd say their about the same,but it does come 'fully loaded'(quality dynamo lighting,Tubus racks and m/guards) and seems like a nice bike.
Their site tells me I can have one shipped to me in the UK for £1820(no shipping cost).
That's not a bargain,I could buy a DT @ £1100 from here:- http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/34 ... -bike.html and 'load' it myself to the same spec or better ie; dynamo,racks and m/guards etc,for an extra £400.

A DT here costs $2200 - the same price as the VWR but with none of the extras. In local prices, retrofitting an SP dynamo hub, B&M lighting, mudguards, sidestand and a Tubus Logo rack would add another $1000.
And definitely a superior spec with Sugino crankset vs Andel, Nitto Noodle bars vs PMT, Schwalbe Marathon vs Conti Tour Ride etcetera...

Sorry I don't see those particularly as big enough pluses to matter that much.Both cranksets are very similar,h/bars are very similar and TBH neither would suit me.
Tyres are about the same spec.
The etcetera I don't know about.
I'm not trying to put the Vivente down,IMO it looks like a good bike and well specced,but DT/LHT is well worth the £1100(+£400 to load it) asking price in Europe whereas the Vivente isn't the same bargain @ £1820 and considering the supplier is a looonnnggg way of for any warranty claim,things start to look a little one sided from my POV.
In NZ/Oz that balance tips the other way maybe.
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reohn2
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Re: Default tourer?

Post by reohn2 »

RonK wrote:I've already told you what makes the LHT a slug - I found it a dull, unresponsive, unrewarding ride.

OK.

Suffice to say the Sabbath is two kilograms lighter, smooth, responsive and "glides" (the best way I can express the sensation) beautifully for the effort input - so yes, it is a very rewarding ride.

Glad it suites :)

It wasn't my first choice either - that was a Dawes Ultra Galaxy, and I spent some considerable effort trying to buy a bike from the psychopath at Spa Cycles,but he just didn't want to sell me a bike.

I don't think you're the first meet with that particular obstacle,or the last FTM :?
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Gearoidmuar
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Thorn Raven Tour.

Post by Gearoidmuar »

Very strongly built, Rohloff, extremely wear-resistant rims, Rigida Andra, V-brakes with Swissstop Blue blocks. I've had this bike for the last five years. It's brilliant.
Preceding it as touring bikes were 8 other bikes. This is the best.
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