1980s Raleigh Esprit for tour of Italy?

[leaf17]

Hi all,

I've only recently got into cycling after having bought an old Raleigh Esprit to cycle to uni on. Absolutely loving it - takes me back to being 10!
A few pals and I are planning on doing a 3 week trip through Italy next summer. I'm planning on buying something like a second hand Dawes Galaxy as I hear they're pretty reliable and can be had for under 300 quid. However, I'm struggling for cash at the mo. Am I absolutely crazy to consider that I could use my Esprit for such a trip?

Thanks
Jack

[beardy]

Depends how much kit you need or want to carry.

If it already has a Brooks saddle fitted then a large saddlebag could be hung from a large frame bike and take all that some cycle tourists need. Add a cheap barbag (Lidl) to the front.

The problem with a lightweight bike like that is how you are going to put all your kit on it. Summer touring with a lightweight load could be mounted on a rack fitted using P clips. Problem is that lightweight camping kit costs rather more than an old secondhand Galaxy.

[ANTONISH]

Several times in the 1960's I toured with a road bike complete with sprints and tubulars.
In those times road bikes normally had mudguard eyes which I managed to use for a rack.
I had a small tent and basic camping equipment - no cooking stuff. Minimum clothing.
I don't know what you have planned in regard to accommodation but I think as long as your bike is sound there is no good reason why you can't use it for a tour.
As you are young you can probably manage with the range of gears you have. My lowest gear at the time was a 45 x 25 - I couldn't manage that now .

[Bicycler]

If there is nothing wrong with your bike there is no reason you can't use it. For lightweight touring I agree with Beardy about the large saddle bag (the likes of the Carradice Super C, Nelson longflap and, in particular, the Camper Longflap are pretty large) with a bar bag. If you are carrying a budget tent and cooking gear that becomes impractical so you'd need a rack and panniers. Again, I'd try to keep the weight down as much as possible.

I can't recall the Espirit but here are some potential problems of using older bikes on tour:
Does it use the old 27 x 1 1/4 (ISO 630) tyres? These are likely to be very hard to find on the continent. You may be able to fit modern 700C wheels.
Are you happy enough with the brakes? Steel rims and sidepull brakes would not be my choice for the Dolomites.
Problems with old gears - Is it a threaded hub with freewheel or a cassette hub? If obsolete they may not be easily replacable in an Italian village. Freewheels may require obscure tools to remove, Old Ultraglide (& Suntour etc.) cassettes are like rocking horse poo.
How many gears? A modern road rear wheel will generally 'spring' into a frame designed for 126mm 6-speed hubs but if it is 5 speed or fewer you may have problems sourcing a replacement on the road.
Light road frames can flex alarmingly if overloaded.

At the very least I would suggest that you give your bike a thorough service before departure to minimise the risk of parts needing to be replaced en route.

A proper touring bike makes sense if you want to carry greater loads and it would allow the load to be better distributed between front and rear carriers.

There's more to touring bikes than the Galaxy by the way. The name 'Galaxy' carries a bit of a premium. These touring bike models were around for a while so can sometimes be found more cheaply:

Dawes: Vantage, Horizon,
Raleigh: Royal, Randonneur
claude butler: Dalesman, Regent
Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op: Revolution Country range (Traveller, Explorer etc.)
Saracen Skyline
Ridgeback have done a few too.
Plenty of small independents had their own touring bike frames in the same style usually in Reynolds 531, 531 ST (Super Tourist), or later 631 tubing.

Instead of asking whether your commuting road bike could manage a tour you could assure yourself that a touring bike would be an ideal commuter

[Hobbs1951]

I'm not super familiar with this bike, assuming its the slivery-blue one. If so it will be made from a basic steel tubeset (heavy-ish); sure it will have 700c wheels and a six speed freewheel. Much of the advice is very good (as it often is here).

Any bicycle is suitable for a tour as long as you are aware of it's potential limitations and adjust your expectations accordingly - this is especially relevant as you've just bought this quite old bike and no doubt it'll need maintenance and replacement parts (certainly the consumables like cables, chain, brake blocks, tyres, lubricant).

The wheels are likely to be chromed steel; which are deadly in wet conditions and should be changed for alloy rims. If you are planning time in the Dolomites you certainly need good brakes and bearings (headset, bottom bracket and hubs) for safe braking and handling - good tyres too. You probably have a freewheel rather than a cassette, I'd stay with the freewheel as six speed cassettes aren't easily found anywhere (you'll not find too many bike repairers in small Italian villages).

I would also advise that you acquire some basic maintenance skills along with riding skills. Commuting - if you are inexperienced - on a daily basis will not prepare you for riding in a mountainous region like the Dolomites (Giro d'Italia?)

Also ensure the bike is set up well for you (position), all of the above applies to the Esprit or any other machine if your budget allows.

Pictures always help and good luck.

Jon.

[mjr]

The wheels are likely to be chromed steel; which are deadly in wet conditions and should be changed for alloy rims

Deadly? It's not like they spontaneously combust in wet weather or anything. They might not offer good enough braking for mountain descents and I suspect it's worth replacing them for this trip, but the steel-hate is over the top.

[Bicycler]

The wheels are likely to be chromed steel; which are deadly in wet conditions and should be changed for alloy rims

Deadly? It's not like they spontaneously combust in wet weather or anything. They might not offer good enough braking for mountain descents and I suspect it's worth replacing them for this trip, but the steel-hate is over the top.

Agreed. If we totalled all the things bikes supposedly 'need' in order to be safe and usable nobody would be able to ride a bike over twenty years old and it could be considered a miracle people ever coped with such machines. Needless to say people were pass storming in the days of single fixed gears and steel rims and many dutch cyclists are still cycling round on steel rims and a single brake. It helps to know the limitations of your equipment and ride accordingly and also to be able to make an informed decision about what to purchase or upgrade. I think it's possible to pass on that information without labelling the vast majority of bikes ever produced as deadly

[Dudley Manlove]

The wheels are likely to be chromed steel; which are deadly in wet conditions and should be changed for alloy rims

Deadly? It's not like they spontaneously combust in wet weather or anything. They might not offer good enough braking for mountain descents and I suspect it's worth replacing them for this trip, but the steel-hate is over the top.

Agreed. If we totalled all the things bikes supposedly 'need' in order to be safe and usable nobody would be able to ride a bike over twenty years old and it could be considered a miracle people ever coped with such machines. Needless to say people were pass storming in the days of single fixed gears and steel rims and many dutch cyclists are still cycling round on steel rims and a single brake. It helps to know the limitations of your equipment and ride accordingly and also to be able to make an informed decision about what to purchase or upgrade. I think it's possible to pass on that information without labelling the vast majority of bikes ever produced as deadly

Hrmmm. Not having rode an old vintage bike in the wet before, and having recently bought an old Raleigh 20 off eBay....One damp morning a couple of weeks ago I almost rode the bike down the drive and straight into a busy main road. Instead I rode myself into a wall. Braking on steel rims in the wet is pretty shocking tbh. Even now I've done the commute on it in the wet a few times and am used to making allowances for it, braking long in advance, getting my foot down as required etc, I'm not sure I'd really want to do a lumpy tour on it.

Did people really ride a loaded bike down 40mph+ decents with these brakes in the wet, or simply get off?

[Bicycler]

I had the reverse experience. The first bike I had with v-brakes nearly threw me over the bars so accustomed was I to using a vice-like grip I think people were a fair bit more cautious with how they rode but I can honestly say cycle tourists didn't usually avoid going down hills or sit around waiting for the 1980s to come and Alu rims to become affordable. Then again, most of us were carrying saddlebags rather than kitchen sinks and our descents were in the Lakes rather than the Dolomites. If the OP expects his tour to be mountainous then better wheels and brakes would be a worthwhile upgrade.

I had a discussion with a young guy the other week who told me that people need disk brakes in order to be able to ride a bike off road. He said he'd tried a bike with v-brakes and it was scary and unsafe. He wouldn't even consider a road bike safe without them. Now obviously people have been riding around off road far longer than the past few years when disks (or v-brakes) have been available. I think to a large extent we adjust ourselves to what we have and then it gets hard to go back. I don't remember anybody finding friction shifting problematic before indexed gears. Many cyclists were perfectly happy with 3 gears before derailleurs became affordable. Someone had to drive my car (without power steering) once and said they didn't know how I managed. I replied that none of us found it any hardship until someone provided us with power steering.

[thomalan]

On the subject of braking I think the critical thing is to ditch the old blocks, they may be over 20 years old and have become as hard as slate. I replaced the front brake on my old '55 Holdsworth with a NOS MAFAC racer I got off Ebay. It didn't slow me down one bit! . I replace the blocks with new 'Coolstops' and the brake worked as good as my latest road bike ( well nearly as well!) - Alan

[mjr]

It's far easier to fit unsuitable brake pads on a vintage steel-rimmed bike and come a cropper, especially as the error is most likely a new rider braking later than needed. If someone used to vintage kit gets on a modern bike with long-pad V-brakes on aluminium, they can usually ease off the braking before it causes a crash.

Most pads seem to work at least OK on aluminium, but some pads work much better than others on steel. I'm still working my way through what's readily available locally now to see if anything is as good on steel as the Fibrax Raincheaters that I used until I switched to aluminium rims about 2010.

Oh and about "I don't remember anybody finding friction shifting problematic before indexed gears" - the first time I tried shifting, I spent so much time trying to move the lever the right amount that I lost track of my steering and ended up in a field! Before that I had a bike with a S-A 3 speed hub... but on the first ride on that, I ended up in a rose bush because I underestimated how much further "High" would propel me than the single-speed I'd had until then!

[Vorpal]

I did all of my early tours on a mid 70s Raleigh road bike.

If you go light, you don't need a rack. If you are carrying camping gear, don't try to do it with a rucksack.

My bike had rack mountings, but if yours doesn't there are plenty of alternatives, including racks that will mount with p-clips. A small trailer might be the easiest solution, depending upon how much you want to carry.

IMO, it's possible to tour on just about anything that qualifies as pedal cycle. Some things are easier to do it with then others.

Take a couple of weekend mini tours to try things out & make adjustments.

[leaf17]

Crikey! Overwhelmed by the quantity and quality of all the responses - thank you so much.
It'll take me several weeks to research all the info you've given me as I'm a complete novice.

If you guys were in my position, what would you do? If I choose to buy a tourer, buying second hand to me seems a no-brainer as 1) obviously cheaper and 2) will hold value far better. Would you agree?

Thanks again,
Jack

[Vorpal]

Crikey! Overwhelmed by the quantity and quality of all the responses - thank you so much.
It'll take me several weeks to research all the info you've given me as I'm a complete novice.

If you guys were in my position, what would you do? If I choose to buy a tourer, buying second hand to me seems a no-brainer as 1) obviously cheaper and 2) will hold value far better. Would you agree?

Thanks again,
Jack

Yes, but you can get a poor bargain if you buy something that ends up needing lots of work. If you aren't experienced at maintaining bikes, you either need to buy secondhand from a reputable shop, or get some help from a friend who is knowledgeable.
If I were in your position, and I liked the bike I was riding, I'd upgrade bits on that, as I could, and save the money for the trip, or other things I needed for the trip. If you fall in love with touring, save your money (or get some help from family) and buy a bike for the trip after, or the one after that.

But you will get as many opinions as people on here, so see what others say, do your research and have a think. If you decide to buy something, IMO the Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op tourer is a bit on the heavy side, but probably the best value for money amongst the entry level touring bikes. You might find that you can pick up a bargain if you wait until retail is dead in late January.

[ANTONISH]

Hrmmm. Not having rode an old vintage bike in the wet before, and having recently bought an old Raleigh 20 off eBay....One damp morning a couple of weeks ago I almost rode the bike down the drive and straight into a busy main road. Instead I rode myself into a wall. Braking on steel rims in the wet is pretty shocking tbh. Even now I've done the commute on it in the wet a few times and am used to making allowances for it, braking long in advance, getting my foot down as required etc, I'm not sure I'd really want to do a lumpy tour on it.
Did people really ride a loaded bike down 40mph+ decents with these brakes in the wet, or simply get off?

All my early cycling was on steel rims - all weathers - 100miles + in a day.
I suppose one just adapted to the braking capacity available. Maybe the brake block compounds of the time (mid fifties) were better suited to steel?