No, you don't Pete, but as I pointed out, if a driver is going along at 50/60mph, he needs to see far enough ahead to chose a line. If there's less than a few hundred yards, the time is not long.pjclinch wrote:..... you don't get hit by a motor vehicle that's half a mile away.
Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
Going back to the original question you need to make sure you comply with the regulations for lighting and extras in not just the countries but the State or county you are visiting.
If you do not want to wear hiv vis do not but something that is reflective may keep the locals quiet.
A head torch is brilliant for looking where you are going especially road surface. However they are no good for being seen by cars (I do use a head torch) you would need at least one battery operated bike mounted lamp.
Similarly a helmet mounted rear lamp will disappear from behind when you turn your head, so a standard battery operated lamp (I like the ones with large reflectors) attached to the back of the rack as well would be better.
Sorry I can not recommend makes or models my last lot came from Aldi. Make sure that replacement batteries that fit the lights are available where you are going.
If you do not want to wear hiv vis do not but something that is reflective may keep the locals quiet.
A head torch is brilliant for looking where you are going especially road surface. However they are no good for being seen by cars (I do use a head torch) you would need at least one battery operated bike mounted lamp.
Similarly a helmet mounted rear lamp will disappear from behind when you turn your head, so a standard battery operated lamp (I like the ones with large reflectors) attached to the back of the rack as well would be better.
Sorry I can not recommend makes or models my last lot came from Aldi. Make sure that replacement batteries that fit the lights are available where you are going.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar
I do not care about spelling and grammar
- Slow Loris
- Posts: 152
- Joined: 19 May 2014, 1:27pm
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
If the OP doesn't want special clothes, sam brown belts are a good alternative – they don't make you hot and can easily be taken off and packed away. For night riding I wear a white reflective one with wide reflective ankle bands and the bike has Aldi spoke reflectors – very visible from all sides. On cloudy days when I'm in dark clothing, I'll wear a yellow high viz belt.
An anecdote regarding hi viz: some while ago I was cycling along a suburban street and saw an unidentifiable mass of yellow in the distance. It turned out to be a group of kids doing their bikability training so I smiled and waved as I went past. One of the instructors, however, felt that I wasn't visible enough (I was riding in primary, wearing a bright red cycling jacket and hi viz ankle bands on a bright, sunny day ). He clearly wanted to call me out as a bad example to his class, and waved his hi viz jacket insisting 'you should be wearing one of these – you can't be seen'. I responded pleasantly and carried on, but felt sad that those kids were already being taught to bear greater responsibility for their safety than is expected from an adult motorist, just through their attire. As future motorists themselves, they'll simply learn that driving a car absolves you from looking .
An anecdote regarding hi viz: some while ago I was cycling along a suburban street and saw an unidentifiable mass of yellow in the distance. It turned out to be a group of kids doing their bikability training so I smiled and waved as I went past. One of the instructors, however, felt that I wasn't visible enough (I was riding in primary, wearing a bright red cycling jacket and hi viz ankle bands on a bright, sunny day ). He clearly wanted to call me out as a bad example to his class, and waved his hi viz jacket insisting 'you should be wearing one of these – you can't be seen'. I responded pleasantly and carried on, but felt sad that those kids were already being taught to bear greater responsibility for their safety than is expected from an adult motorist, just through their attire. As future motorists themselves, they'll simply learn that driving a car absolves you from looking .
Slow Loris
Energy sparingly used
Energy sparingly used
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
pjclinch wrote:irc wrote:Because accidents caused by dark V bright coloured cars are a small fraction of the total accidents.
Okay, you've piqued my interest... exactly what fraction?
Too small for insurance companies to worry about. Just because something is small does not mean it doesn't exist.
http://www.claimsmadesimple.co.uk/artic ... olour-car/
pjclinch wrote:irc wrote:I know from experience that bright colours can be seen more easily at a distance. I have seen groups of cyclists or hillwalkers at a distance and seen the brightly dressed ones far sooner than the ones dressed in black.
Nobody's disputing that, but as I've already pointed out, you don't get hit by a motor vehicle that's half a mile away.
No but if drivers can see a cyclist in the distance that is only momentarily visible then lost to sight due to intervening traffic/hills/hedges etcthen their mental map now has that cyclist and they can be prepared for a safe overtake when they reach the cyclist even if they can't see him for much of the intervening time.
pjclinch wrote:irc wrote:I accept that in most cases drivers don't see because they are not looking but the low visibility of black still exists. Choosing not to wear black is just another edge I can get in my favour. Like choosing the low traffic 30mph route rather than the 70mph dual carriageway. Like not riding in the gutter etc. Just because the effect is small doesn't mean I would not rather have it in my favour.
You say it's "small", which is a qaulitative measure. What actually is it, quantitatively? Follow the research and it's increasingly turning out to be the case that hi-viz doesn't give any clear edge. That's not intuitive, but there again neither is the fact that crash helmets don't appear to do anything for your chances of a trip to A&E with something serious.
I suspect that the subset of accidents where visibility really matters is small enough that it can't be seen for the noise. I still prefer to have it on my side rather than against me. Being seen sooner is better than being seen later. Or are you saying it never matters how soon drivers see cyclists? I'll continue to avoid black cycling tops as unlike a helmet there is no downside to wearing a bright top.
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
There is no downside. Bright fluorescent tops are great business attire and not at all ugly when visiting tourist attractions like stately homes. People should be happy with how much more beautiful it makes every rural view and any non motorised road user should use them:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... i-vis.html
Or we could stop this arms race with no winners.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... i-vis.html
Or we could stop this arms race with no winners.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
maxcherry wrote:So why do people in Hi-Viz, with lights and helmet get knocked over ?
WHAT DO DRIVERS DO AT JUNCTIONS?
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
mjr wrote:There is no downside. Bright fluorescent tops are great business attire and not at all ugly when visiting tourist attractions like stately homes. People should be happy with how much more beautiful it makes every rural view and any non motorised road user should use them:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... i-vis.html
Or we could stop this arms race with no winners.
Do you wear one in the Supermarket?
The Supermarket has a formal risk assessment that says the car Park is sufficiently dangerous that their employees need to wear Hi-Viz jackets as PPE when in th Car PArk.
Yet the same drivers who won't see the Supermarket worker without this visibility aid will see Mr and Mrs Bloggs along with Charmaine and Kevin who don't need Hi-Viz?
Surely we ALL be wearing Hi-Viz when crossing the Supermarket car park?
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
Anyway - Back to the original thread.
I tend to wear "travel gear" such as Rohan, Craghoppers, Paramo etc when touring as if I have an off the bike day to explore a city or even just and evening in the pub then I will fit in
For lights I use a B&M Ixn premium, as the light beam is good, has a reasonable life, and you can leave the charger at home an simply swap batteries if you need more than expected. On the rear I have a Fibre flare which simply last forever and an IX-Back on the rear for the same reasons
I tend to wear "travel gear" such as Rohan, Craghoppers, Paramo etc when touring as if I have an off the bike day to explore a city or even just and evening in the pub then I will fit in
For lights I use a B&M Ixn premium, as the light beam is good, has a reasonable life, and you can leave the charger at home an simply swap batteries if you need more than expected. On the rear I have a Fibre flare which simply last forever and an IX-Back on the rear for the same reasons
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
Hey thanks for all the replies! Really useful. Bike lights seem to be a must. Problem is I have a handlebar bag (which I'm sure most people have), so where do I attach the front bike light if not to my helmet? I guess my headtorch headband might actually fit on the handlebar bag....? What do others do?
This is interesting, definitely something to think about. As I don't drive I personally don't really know what's best to wear! I was thinking of sticking hi-vis stickers etc to my gear but maybe that's a bad idea....
I cycled for 2 days in Taiwan, through a few tunnels that were undergoing work had has absolutely no lighting. Terrifying as I only had a hand torch with me at the time. Can't get worse (or more stupid) than that...
My clothing isn't really cycle clothing (except the shorts). I just wear mainly black and dark clothing all the time anyway, so wearing an orange t-shirt would be totally out of my comfort zone. As I want to travel as light as possible clothes that double up as 'off cycle' clothing is better (I'll be spending time in cities, stopping frequently). I think a high vis vest or belt would suit me better - just for when it's foggy/raining.
Yep, just bought a mirror, thanks.
The cateye bike light as a head torch is a great idea. What kind of headband do you use?
And also the fancy dress style 'anything that catches the drivers eye' is a good tip!
Thanks, this is good to know. I assumed lights attached to the helmet would be fine, but it makes sense that when turning your head you might not be seen. And the whole safetly regulation thing.... Problem is I have a handlebar bag (which I'm sure most people have), so where do I attach the front bike light if not to my helmet? I guess my headtorch headband might actually fit on the handlebar bag....?
beardy wrote:When it comes to trying to look bright in daytime, it has to be big. Small bits of different colour will break up your shape and camouflage you.
This is interesting, definitely something to think about. As I don't drive I personally don't really know what's best to wear! I was thinking of sticking hi-vis stickers etc to my gear but maybe that's a bad idea....
simonhill wrote:For the tunnels in Taiwan I bought a very lightweight reflective waistcoat. Hi viz mesh with lots of reflective strips. Light and easy to carry.
I cycled for 2 days in Taiwan, through a few tunnels that were undergoing work had has absolutely no lighting. Terrifying as I only had a hand torch with me at the time. Can't get worse (or more stupid) than that...
spinners wrote: I find the use of all black cycle clothing baffling and see so many cyclists dressed like this nowadays..
My clothing isn't really cycle clothing (except the shorts). I just wear mainly black and dark clothing all the time anyway, so wearing an orange t-shirt would be totally out of my comfort zone. As I want to travel as light as possible clothes that double up as 'off cycle' clothing is better (I'll be spending time in cities, stopping frequently). I think a high vis vest or belt would suit me better - just for when it's foggy/raining.
irc wrote: Other advice - use a mirror. Most drivers are OK but you will get a few close passes and they are less frightening when you see them coming.
Yep, just bought a mirror, thanks.
AaronR wrote: Cateye Rapid 3 front and rear, seem to run forever on one AA battery available everywhere, clips can be got so that they can be put on clothing (I have a few knocking about for the price of postage), add them to a headband and you have a very capable head torch, so thats one item instead of two to carry.... 80's shell suit jacket? Pink (on a bloke)? Afro party wig on helmet? Saw an excellent lycra top once that made the rider look like a crash test dummy - anything that is going to catch a drivers eye and trigger them to look again is worth it
The cateye bike light as a head torch is a great idea. What kind of headband do you use?
And also the fancy dress style 'anything that catches the drivers eye' is a good tip!
Edwards wrote: A head torch is brilliant for looking where you are going especially road surface. However they are no good for being seen by cars (I do use a head torch) you would need at least one battery operated bike mounted lamp.
Thanks, this is good to know. I assumed lights attached to the helmet would be fine, but it makes sense that when turning your head you might not be seen. And the whole safetly regulation thing.... Problem is I have a handlebar bag (which I'm sure most people have), so where do I attach the front bike light if not to my helmet? I guess my headtorch headband might actually fit on the handlebar bag....?
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
elioelio wrote:Hey thanks for all the replies! Really useful. Bike lights seem to be a must. Problem is I have a handlebar bag (which I'm sure most people have), so where do I attach the front bike light if not to my helmet? I guess my headtorch headband might actually fit on the handlebar bag....? What do others do?
My front bike light is mounted on what I think is called the fork crown: the front of the bolt that holds the mudguard on. It doesn't come off. I've also seen lights mounted on the front forks, sometimes removable ones.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
- jamesgilbert
- Posts: 316
- Joined: 5 Feb 2013, 4:25pm
- Location: Lyon
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
elioelio wrote: so where do I attach the front bike light if not to my helmet? I guess my headtorch headband might actually fit on the handlebar bag....?
As I attempted to explain in my post, this is what I do and it works perfectly well. And it means that I don't need to carry a front light that I would have used for a total of about 20 minutes on a 2 month tour of Europe last summer.
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
Remove the bar bag and sling it over your saddle bag by its shoulder strap and secure with a bungee or similar if need be. Your bars are then free for the light. I seldom need a light when on tour, if I do it is usually only for a few miles, so this works for me even if it is a little inconvenient.elioelio wrote:Hey thanks for all the replies! Really useful. Bike lights seem to be a must. Problem is I have a handlebar bag (which I'm sure most people have), so where do I attach the front bike light if not to my helmet? I guess my headtorch headband might actually fit on the handlebar bag....? What do others do?
Alternatively - mount your bar bag lower by putting it on something like this
http://www.freshtripe.co.uk/freshtripe/ ... Rack-1.jpg
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
Don't worry mate, it'll be raining all the time in NZ, so its the colour of your rain top that is important. Cue another 5 pages!!
Good as gold.
Good as gold.
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
Parts of NZ are like parts of here: if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes for some other.... take waterproofs and sunblock.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: Lighting a bike/high vis on tour
elioelio wrote:Hey thanks for all the replies! Really useful. Bike lights seem to be a must. Problem is I have a handlebar bag (which I'm sure most people have), so where do I attach the front bike light if not to my helmet? I guess my headtorch headband might actually fit on the handlebar bag....? What do others do?
If I was doing this trip I would purchase a cheap (Poundland) Hi Vis vest.
If using drop bars, then I would drill a 5mm hole 10mm from the very end of the bars on both sides. I would then bolt a short length of old handle bars at right angles and under the handle bars. A light can be attached to this on either side of the bike (as the side of the road being ridden on changes).
If using straight bars I would drill the same hole but add the tube under and in line with the bars.
I would also try and use the same batteries for all lights. I do like the Head Torch as you are able to flash (not dazzle) other vehicles.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar
I do not care about spelling and grammar