"End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

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RickH
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"End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by RickH »

The Gardian wrote:End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?
The sleeper service is being phased out across the continent as operators are hit by hefty taxes and rise of budget airlines...

I came across this Guardian article recently (a friend shared it on Facebook) and thought I would draw people's attention to it (I don't think it has been mentioned - apologies if it has & I missed it) as they are trains that have been mentioned periodically as a way to get around Europe.

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mjr
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by mjr »

The double whammy of tax rises and subsidy cuts is bad, but I think that what had really crippled them is the expansion of daytime very high speed (200mphish) services.

I came from Milan to Norfolk in a day this summer. Why would I put up with the one catering choice and a moving bed instead of my choice of Milan's restaurants and a three star hotel? Maybe if it was cheaper, but it isn't.

Except for rail fans, only those who don't want to spend a day working on trains AND are rich AND boycott short haul flights would pick sleepers today on most current routes, but that's a pretty small market.
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Audax67
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by Audax67 »

SNCF still has lots of ads for them.
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jgurney
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by jgurney »

mjr wrote: Why would I put up with ..... a moving bed ...


I rather like the motion myself, but I agree it won't suit everybody.

Except for rail fans, only those who ...... boycott short haul flights would pick sleepers today on most current routes, but that's a pretty small market.


It is a market that needs to be nurtured, if we are serious about cutting emissions. I'd support a tax on intra-European flights of under 500km used to promote lower-emission modes.

Personally I like sleepers when I can afford them (usually early bookings) as a neat way of covering distance in time otherwise spent doing nothing but sleeping. E.g for visiting friends in Scotland, after work on a Friday I get the sleeper there, staying with them on Saturday night, then the sleeper back on Sunday night and straight to work. They live far from any airport so I doubt I could do it by flying even if I wanted to, without spending Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon still in transit.
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foxyrider
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Not just the trains

Post by foxyrider »

Next Monday sees the last sailing of the DFDS Harwich-Esjberg ferry route, how are we supposed to get to Scandinavia now? :(
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Re: Not just the trains

Post by mjr »

foxyrider wrote:Next Monday sees the last sailing of the DFDS Harwich-Esjberg ferry route, how are we supposed to get to Scandinavia now? :(

Daytime train, changing Brussels, Cologne and Hamburg. Once DB start running through the channel tunnel, you'll have the option of skipping the Brussels change.
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Monsieur
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by Monsieur »

Never used a sleeper train but must admit it's been on my list of 'things to do' for many years, if only for the romance of the journey
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simonhill
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by simonhill »

Go to Thailand. Sleeper half way across the country (700 kms) for £15. Bike in the baggage car for another 2 quid.
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Sweep
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by Sweep »

Thanks for the post rick.

Though it's a very sad one.

Loads of memories of night-trains inter-railing but won't put them here as it will go off topic.

Sad for the young as well to think that they will never experience wandering freely around Europe like this - jetting off may seem flash but the novelty soon wears off and it's a pretty miserable stop-start-stand-in-a-line metal tube experience.

Nothing for it but to cycle tour to recapture some of the same spirit :)
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redfacedbaldfatman
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by redfacedbaldfatman »

Sad to read this, I'll be on the Amsterdam to Warsaw next week for the first time and I'm very excited about it. We have a private cabin with WC and shower!
jgurney
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by jgurney »

There are some campaigners trying to save Europe's night trains. Some links below:

http://savethenighttrain.eu/

http://worldcarfree.net/projects/back-o ... /index.php

http://www.petitions24.com/forum/109622
Rob Archer
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by Rob Archer »

I use the England - Scotland trains at least a couple of times a year and they're generally brilliant. I have no problem sleeping on them (although I understand why some people struggle). The lounge is brilliant although it's usually only to passengers in sleeper berths with surprisingly good, affordable food.

They're always full so the operators must be doing something right. I think that most European operators just can't be a***d to make go of them.

I think it's a great pity the UK - mainland Europe ones never ran. The trains were built but the govt then decided they would be 'uneconomic' and we sold them to Canada. Having said that, they'd probably have made everyone get off a Lille at 2am to be strip-searched or something!
redfacedbaldfatman
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by redfacedbaldfatman »

The Amsterdam to Warsaw night train was not bad at all. We had use of the quiet lounge in Amsterdam with free beer etc. Two beds in our cabin with our own wc + shower. First time I've had a shower on a train! We had a picnic with bottle of wine etc as we knew there would not be any food available. "Breakfast" consisted of tea/coffee and a croissant. Thankfully we had brought breakfast with us too.
Total was 400 euros, OK for the length of the journey, boarded at 7pm and got into warsaw at 12.15pm yesterday afternoon.
iviehoff
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Re: "End of the line for Europe's iconic night trains?"

Post by iviehoff »

The essential issue for the railways (and the ferries) is that while the cost of flying and the cost of motoring continue to fall,* as cars and planes get both cheaper to build and cheaper to run, the railways trend in the other direction. This increasingly makes trains less cost-competitive for many journeys.

*Yes it does. People tend to remember some recent case of fuel and insurance costs going up, but overlook the longterm downward trend in total motoring costs.
patrick9
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Re: Not just the trains

Post by patrick9 »

mjr wrote:
foxyrider wrote:Next Monday sees the last sailing of the DFDS Harwich-Esjberg ferry route, how are we supposed to get to Scandinavia now? :(

Daytime train, changing Brussels, Cologne and Hamburg. Once DB start running through the channel tunnel, you'll have the option of skipping the Brussels change.

When might this be? have you any more info about this?
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