Do I need front panniers for touring?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
nirakaro
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by nirakaro »

The minimal essentials – passport and wallet – are never off my body (except when I’m in the shower). If I feel I’m passing through a dodgy area, they’re in my underwear! Second tier stuff – phone, gps, camera, other small high-value things - in the barbag, never left on the bike. Everything else, I could manage without, or replace if necessary, so I can relax and leave the panniers unattended for a while.
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horizon
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by horizon »

No-one knows what people carry inside their car boots so I think it a bit unfair if cyclists get singled out for carrying a tiny fraction of what a motorist might do on a camping holiday. I'm not sure why cyclists take such a moral stance on carrying extra bags or walking up a hill: have we not already earned our place in heaven simply by being on a bike at all?

I love the fact that a bike can carry all this stuff and I'm happy to take a rackpack and bar bag in addition to rear and front panniers. As long as I can still push the bike uphill the only thing I leave behind at home is the hair shirt.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Dudley Manlove
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by Dudley Manlove »

bikes4two wrote:A fair point - one of our club members, whilst cycling in India, had their bar-bag literally ripped off the handlebars by the pillion rider on a moped! That was her passport, phone, ipod and other essentials gone - it makes you think?

A bit off topic but out of interest, where/how would you recommend carrying said valuables?


Some barbag mounts are lockable (i.e. Klickfix, Ortlieb). While it's not gonna stop anyone opening it up and having a rummage, it at leasts keeps it from being lifted in a split second. Quite handy when you're parked up a outside cafe or whatnot and the bike is locked and in line of sight.

I keep my passport buried deep in the main panniers, my wallet and phone stays on me. I wouldn't put anything essential in the barbag anyhow, just stuff I want to hand like maps, guidebooks, glasses, etc. Problem is a thief doesn't know that.

If the OP decides not to bother with front panniers, a barbag is still well worth considering. Just so handy to be able to stop and immediately access certain things just by popping the lid open.
simonhill
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by simonhill »

I only have rear panniers and a small saddlebag. I put small things in the saddlebag, eg sunglasses, gloves, etc.

I always keep my passport and main cash/debit card on me in a neck pouch. I wear a conventional shirt so easy to conceal. Bumbag for things I need to hand eg small cash and notebook. Tablet and credit card and extra cash in panniers

I've never heard of a barbag being stolen, but tourists are always warned about putting valuables in the basket on front of hire bike/mbike. I imagine the theives are aware that valuable are likely to be held in barbag.
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bikes4two
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by bikes4two »

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Answer, no, not in my opinion (for all the reasons already mentioned) unless (ha ha) you're touring on a tandem or going around the world/very long trip where you might need a lot of kit.

This chap is often quoted in taking ultra-light cycle camping to the extreme, but for new readers have a look here
Without my stoker, every trip would only be half a journey
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horizon
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by horizon »

bikes4two wrote:This chap is often quoted in taking ultra-light cycle camping to the extreme, but for new readers have a look here


He says he doesn't use cooking equipment.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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bikes4two
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by bikes4two »

Me neither, such a wasteful exercise.
Without my stoker, every trip would only be half a journey
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horizon
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by horizon »

It may be but you still have to compare like with like. If cooking is your thing, then you will have to carry more than people who don't cook. Travelling light on a bicycle is unarguably a good thing: what is arguable is whether the same degree of comfort and utillity can be achieved with less stuff.

We also assume that cycle campers are moving on and wish to obtain high mileages (in which case lightness is crucial). But some people may be happy with lower mileages and appreciate the greater comfort - I know I do.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
bohrsatom
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by bohrsatom »

I am 3 months into a 4 month bike tour across Europe with only rear panniers, a rack bag (20L) and a bar bag. My girlfriend has exactly the same bags and between us we are carrying a tent, sleeping equipment, stove, gas, clothes, a tablet, etc and still have room for food. What has helped is choosing small/compact/ultralight stuff: down bags, air mats that roll up very small, a nestable pot/bowls/mugs. Otherwise just one or two of these items could fill an entire pannier.

We have met plenty of bike tourists on much shorter trips with front panniers and I am often envious of them at camp as they have lots of luxuries but the next day when we are riding up hills I am glad we only have a small amount of stuff! Of course if you are riding through Africa or the Middle East and need to carry lots of spares they may be essential but for trips where you are never far from civilisation I think they just slow you down.

So if it all fits onto the back then don't bother with front panniers. Just the rack and bags weigh around 2kg and that's without anything inside.

Our bikes are a bit rear heavy and sometimes lifting the front wheels when pushing causes the bike to tip up but I've had no handling issues whilst riding in 4500km.
eileithyia
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by eileithyia »

If it works then don't fix it, why carry more?
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horizon
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by horizon »

If you have to carry more stuff (and it's the "if" that we are discussing I think) front panniers are excellent. They let you organise stuff better, you avoid the tipping effect of too much weight on the back and they stabilise the bike's handling. AIUI, many touring bikes will even have steering that improves with front loading as the bike maker has expected that you will carry luggage up front. I rarely see cycle tourists with front panniers and more may in fact benefit from them.

TBH I don't think I actually understand the OP's question. Front panniers are there if you want or need them. The downside of their extra weight and hassle is obvious (I presume that most cyclists aren't that stupid that they feel they ought to have them). Cycle camping is an art and, yes, there's lots to share and learn in terms of what makes sense in terms of comfort and lightness. But what you choose to take on a journey, what makes you happy, is up to you.

It's a cycling trip we're talking about here, not a guilt trip.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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simonineaston
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by simonineaston »

bikes4two wrote:
axel_knutt wrote:You wouldn't catch me using a bar bag even, for the same reason........................................................


A fair point - one of our club members, whilst cycling in India, had their bar-bag literally ripped off the handlebars by the pillion rider on a moped! That was her passport, phone, ipod and other essentials gone - it makes you think?

A bit off topic but out of interest, where/how would you recommend carrying said valuables?

While it has to be said I'm only going as far as WildNWooly Normandy, not India, I'm going to try wearing all my essentials on a belt - a Viper, the sort sold to police and security staff. My 'essentials' are: passport, cash/cards, glasses, phone and a multi-tool. That way all the stuff I'd be in trouble if I lost will be firmly clamped to me and hopefully, out-of-sight. I just hope it won't look too Rambo!!
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wearwell
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by wearwell »

One big drawback with front panniers is the damping effect when you are tired and going up hills heavily laden in bottom gear. The weight on the front damps the natural side to side turns - you get wobbles and use up even more energy trying to keep the bike going straight. High tyre pressure helps a bit (less resistance to turning). Next trip I do will be without them.
On fast easy terrain they are no prob at all and a damping effect is useful.
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RickH
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by RickH »

wearwell wrote:One big drawback with front panniers is the damping effect when you are tired and going up hills heavily laden in bottom gear. The weight on the front damps the natural side to side turns - you get wobbles and use up even more energy trying to keep the bike going straight. High tyre pressure helps a bit (less resistance to turning). Next trip I do will be without them.
On fast easy terrain they are no prob at all and a damping effect is useful.

You don't have to waggle the bars around - look at the trials/stunt riders balancing on something seemingly impossibly narrow, they stay there by shifting their weight from side to side rather than turning the bars. Admittedly I'm nowhere near as good as them but, for the most part, I can ride up a steep hill at slow speeds (c3 mph) without much bar movement. I do get plenty of practice having lived 2/3 of the way up a stupidly steep hill for over 30 years - I usually either come home up 250ft ascent in the last 1/2 mile or go out up a similar gradient of about half the distance (& sometimes end up doing both in 1 trip!).

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gloomyandy
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Re: Do I need front panniers for touring?

Post by gloomyandy »

I've tried with and without. Personally I much prefer with front panniers. I cycle camp and carry cooking gear. My first couple of trips were rear panniers only. To begin with my sleeping bag on the rear rack:
Image

Then (with a new bike and new rear panniers), with my tent on the top rack:
Image

and finally with front panniers and nothing on the rear rack:
Image

I find with four panniers that the bike feels better. It is easier to organize "stuff". Basically my front panniers contain sleeping bag and mat and spare clothes. I typically don't touch those bags during the day. At the rear I have my tent and waterproofs, crocs etc. potentially wet stuff in one pannier and then stove and cooking stuff in the other. The rear panniers are easier to get into without things on top of the rack. There is plenty of room for food in the cooking pannier and the top of the rack is free fro me to carry a water bladder if I'm going to be wild wild camping away from a water supply, or put the tent on there if I want to dry it out. Yes it is a little heavier but I don't really notice that when on the bike. The only thing I carry now that I didn't on my first few trips is a chair kit for my sleeping mat, and I wouldn't be without that. I've climbed some pretty steep hills with this setup with no problems, can happily ride out of the saddle and the bike feels fine. I've not tried travelling by train with this setup, I can imagine that the extra bags can be a pain. I have a bar bag that has maps (I use pages cut from a chap road atlas), phone, kindle sun tan, glasses, midge net! I mainly tour in the more remote parts of Scotland and have never worried about leaving bags on the bike, or the bike unlocked.
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