First Tour
Re: First Tour
There's no shame in calling it a day if things conspire against you. I remember coming out of the train station in barrow, set for a 50 miler, then spent a wet half an hour failing to find the right way onto the cycle route, then ran over a 2inch screw which kebabed the front tyre. Got on the next train home! Cycle touring is supposed to be fun.
That said, I'd never just rely on a gps. You can get away with it but even a sheet from a road atlas can help if the tech fails and you are relying on sign posts.
That said, I'd never just rely on a gps. You can get away with it but even a sheet from a road atlas can help if the tech fails and you are relying on sign posts.
Re: First Tour
Round 2 coming up
Hooray! Here's to blue skies and tailwinds...
Re: First Tour
geocycle wrote:There's no shame in calling it a day if things conspire against you.
This.
And better luck next time
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Re: First Tour
Paper is just a media.
Electronic maps are fine and have extra benefits - size, zoom in/out, navigation, search, compass, direction orientation, 3d view, street views, contact details, points of interest, links, booking facilities, etc
I can take multiple maps for the whole world in something the size of a pack of cards
I doubt my children will ever use a paper map. They will choose the media (currently paper v electronic) based on the pros and cons at the time
Electronic maps are fine and have extra benefits - size, zoom in/out, navigation, search, compass, direction orientation, 3d view, street views, contact details, points of interest, links, booking facilities, etc
I can take multiple maps for the whole world in something the size of a pack of cards
I doubt my children will ever use a paper map. They will choose the media (currently paper v electronic) based on the pros and cons at the time
Re: First Tour
GPS, paper maps, compass, wrist watch are all tools in the tool box of navigation. Refusing to use one of them because it is old fashioned, or what ever is denying your self a tool to aid you finding your location.
GPS and paper have their pros and cons.
GPS, Pros, small, instant location, lots of storage space (depending on the model) Cons, needs batteries
Paper, Pros, Doesn't need batteries, more area visible. Cons, bulky.
I don't use a GPS cycling, I have one in my bag, in case of emergencies. I use paper, Just what I prefer.
Same when I am in the mountains, but I have a GPS in my rucksack, but I am not adverse to using it if the situation dictates, for example, when I was in a white out in Scotland, and there was a distinct possibility of walking over a cliff edge.
Each to there own though.
Neil
GPS and paper have their pros and cons.
GPS, Pros, small, instant location, lots of storage space (depending on the model) Cons, needs batteries
Paper, Pros, Doesn't need batteries, more area visible. Cons, bulky.
I don't use a GPS cycling, I have one in my bag, in case of emergencies. I use paper, Just what I prefer.
Same when I am in the mountains, but I have a GPS in my rucksack, but I am not adverse to using it if the situation dictates, for example, when I was in a white out in Scotland, and there was a distinct possibility of walking over a cliff edge.
Each to there own though.
Neil
If it aint broke, fix it til it is.
Re: First Tour
Regarding the Altura Arran panniers, I have a similar one (a 16) which works fine at the back, as the hook butts against a horizontal transverse rack strut (and the lower hook prevents movement in the other direction).
But for front racks, they seldom have struts in that (horizontal transverse) direction, nor vertically above the rail which the pannier hangs from. Nope, they tend to have struts pointing downwards. That's bad news for most panniers, as it's the part under the hook which is weak as it's either a moving piece (Ortlieb, Vaude) an elastic/spring fit (Altura 16/36 using the Rixon & Kaul Vario-Hooks) or non-existent (Alturas using the Rixen & Kaul red button system).
The rack pictured above compounds this by having curved corners - which will ease the Vario-Hooks open.
To prevent movement in the direction the lower hook is not facing, it might be worth adding hose clamps/jubilee clips wrapped around some layers of inner tube, to arrest the whole of one of the top hooks.
But for front racks, they seldom have struts in that (horizontal transverse) direction, nor vertically above the rail which the pannier hangs from. Nope, they tend to have struts pointing downwards. That's bad news for most panniers, as it's the part under the hook which is weak as it's either a moving piece (Ortlieb, Vaude) an elastic/spring fit (Altura 16/36 using the Rixon & Kaul Vario-Hooks) or non-existent (Alturas using the Rixen & Kaul red button system).
The rack pictured above compounds this by having curved corners - which will ease the Vario-Hooks open.
To prevent movement in the direction the lower hook is not facing, it might be worth adding hose clamps/jubilee clips wrapped around some layers of inner tube, to arrest the whole of one of the top hooks.
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Re: First Tour
Hi Vantage
your first words , instead of "Tried and Failed" should be Tried and Learnt. well, seems you're doing that.
Well done for trying in the first place . i know endless amount of people that talk the talk but don't cycle the cycle.
as far as waterproofing goes i know what you mean. i've had a couple of pairs of Northfarce shoes at £100 a pair and had to send them back . i'm now using a pair of Meindls . so far so good but we'll see.
my Northfarce jacket is now leaking on the shoulders so it's gonna get a coat of Fabsil ASAP.
before i go on a tour i always reproof my bags and bag covers etc with Fabsil which seems to work.
good luck with attempt number 2 !
Bikerwaser
your first words , instead of "Tried and Failed" should be Tried and Learnt. well, seems you're doing that.
Well done for trying in the first place . i know endless amount of people that talk the talk but don't cycle the cycle.
as far as waterproofing goes i know what you mean. i've had a couple of pairs of Northfarce shoes at £100 a pair and had to send them back . i'm now using a pair of Meindls . so far so good but we'll see.
my Northfarce jacket is now leaking on the shoulders so it's gonna get a coat of Fabsil ASAP.
before i go on a tour i always reproof my bags and bag covers etc with Fabsil which seems to work.
good luck with attempt number 2 !
Bikerwaser
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- Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm
Re: First Tour
mnichols wrote:Paper is just a media.
Electronic maps are fine and have extra benefits - size, zoom in/out, navigation, search, compass, direction orientation, 3d view, street views, contact details, points of interest, links, booking facilities, etc
I can take multiple maps for the whole world in something the size of a pack of cards
I doubt my children will ever use a paper map. They will choose the media (currently paper v electronic) based on the pros and cons at the time
I'm not sure electronic maps on a screen 4cm x 5cm is always enough. In the past two years I've twice been stopped by other (non-local) cyclists relying on GPS mapping to ask me if me I can confirm where they were. In both instances they were wrong as to where they believed they were. In that time I haven't been stopped by anyone carrying a paper map. I just don't think a tiny screen can show the surrounding landscape and the gamut of information available on a paper map which orientates you properly . And of course the 'largeness' of a paper map makes it easier to plot a a different and cycle-friendly route when the route originally selected turns out to be unexpectedly busy or you need to get to a village or town pronto. This is my opinion having used both.
Re: First Tour
I agree entirely with Ben@Forest. I find that when on tour maps are still needed, and at a decent scale as well. However, mnichols was writing about the future when perhaps we will have electronic maps offering a head up display with the possibility of an enormously wide screen (so you can plan for a long distance) and infinite zoom (so you can see exactly where that forest track come out). At that point my paper maps will be redundant, assuming of course the display has a battery life of several days.
As for being "not where you think you are". This has happened to me on very very minor roads when using paper maps. I know where I am to within less than a mile but not necessarily which road/track. This is where a GPS has been of help to me and saved me from a dead end this year. The road looked wrong versus what I saw on the map and where I thought I was. The GPS showed me I was on a parallel track leading nowhere.
None of this matters to those people who want to follow pre ordained routes. All they need to know is where the next turning is (not what they are missing and by-passing). To them the current technology is more than adequate.
As for being "not where you think you are". This has happened to me on very very minor roads when using paper maps. I know where I am to within less than a mile but not necessarily which road/track. This is where a GPS has been of help to me and saved me from a dead end this year. The road looked wrong versus what I saw on the map and where I thought I was. The GPS showed me I was on a parallel track leading nowhere.
None of this matters to those people who want to follow pre ordained routes. All they need to know is where the next turning is (not what they are missing and by-passing). To them the current technology is more than adequate.
Re: First Tour
Ben@Forest wrote:I'm not sure electronic maps on a screen 4cm x 5cm is always enough. In the past two years I've twice been stopped by other (non-local) cyclists relying on GPS mapping to ask me if me I can confirm where they were. In both instances they were wrong as to where they believed they were. In that time I haven't been stopped by anyone carrying a paper map. I just don't think a tiny screen can show the surrounding landscape and the gamut of information available on a paper map which orientates you properly . And of course the 'largeness' of a paper map makes it easier to plot a a different and cycle-friendly route when the route originally selected turns out to be unexpectedly busy or you need to get to a village or town pronto. This is my opinion having used both.
+1
For me, the electronic/paper format is not relevant. It's the size (iPhone screen vs opened out paper map) that makes a big difference. On my phone I can tell exactly where I am; which can be really useful at an unsigned junction but is not much help when you are trying to navigate to somewhere e.g. 15 miles away - 'cos you just can't get the coverage and maintain detail/clarity (to even read the names).
So they both have their place.
However, I'm surprised at a GPS owner/user having to ask where they are. GPS is great at telling you where you are and I'd have expected the question to be "how do I get to ... (place 10+ miles away)".
Ian
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Re: First Tour
Psamathe wrote:
However, I'm surprised at a GPS owner/user having to ask where they are. GPS is great at telling you where you are and I'd have expected the question to be "how do I get to ... (place 10+ miles away)".
In both instances they were at crossroads in the Nidderdale/Yorkshire Dales area (different crossroads) with a couple of other crossroads within a mile and a half. I presume neither party (and both times it was groups of three or four) had a pre-loaded route. The first group waved me down, the second stopped beside me for confirmation because I was looking at a paper map to ensure I was taking the right turn! But as said both groups were at least one crossroad out and I don't think the displays contained enough info to be able to know this.
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Re: First Tour
Bikerwaser :
There is no try grasshopper. There is only Do or do not.
You did...You learnt, and you will do it again with more experience.
your first words , instead of "Tried and Failed" should be Tried and Learnt. well, seems you're doing that.
Well done for trying in the first place . i know endless amount of people that talk the talk but don't cycle the cycle.
There is no try grasshopper. There is only Do or do not.
You did...You learnt, and you will do it again with more experience.
Re: First Tour
@ Vantage - well done on having a go in the first place and for being prepared to have anther go.
Regarding maps and getting lost, well over 20 years ago my brother-in-law and I were on a 44-mile MTB ride and got lost in a heavily wooded forest before reaching an intersection where about six fire-roads met. A hippie-looking backpacker soon appeared so I asked him, "Where are we? His retort, after a few seconds of reflection, was a cosmic, "Where do you want to be?"
Regarding maps and getting lost, well over 20 years ago my brother-in-law and I were on a 44-mile MTB ride and got lost in a heavily wooded forest before reaching an intersection where about six fire-roads met. A hippie-looking backpacker soon appeared so I asked him, "Where are we? His retort, after a few seconds of reflection, was a cosmic, "Where do you want to be?"
Cycling UK Life Member
PBP Ancien (2007)
PBP Ancien (2007)
Re: First Tour
You haven't failed. You have conducted a first trial. You have learned what didn't work for you. Hopefully you will make some changes and try again. This will make you feel good. Or you can quit and continue to wonder what it would be like to tour.
Re: First Tour
Spinners wrote:Regarding maps and getting lost, well over 20 years ago my brother-in-law and I were on a 44-mile MTB ride and got lost in a heavily wooded forest before reaching an intersection where about six fire-roads met. A hippie-looking backpacker soon appeared so I asked him, "Where are we? His retort, after a few seconds of reflection, was a cosmic, "Where do you want to be?"
That seems a reasonable reply to me - better than "in the middle of a forest", surely? The junction is unlikely to have had a meaningful name.