Italy cycle resources?

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randomblue
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Italy cycle resources?

Post by randomblue »

Hi all!

Two thirds of the way through my tour and about to enter Italy so am trying to make a bit more of a plan than "cycling around a bit"! I've had a look online for maps/routes/any info at all and found almost nothing! There is one website which seems to be independently run rather than done by Italy's tourism board... Ever biroto and opencyclemaps have pretty limited info for the parts of Italy I'm looking at!

Am I just looking in the wrong places or are there just no online resources for cycling in Italy? Or are there actually so few cycle routes that what I have found is it??

Any help/advice greatly appreciated!

The current rough plan is enter from Switzerland north of Milan and then to Venice, possibly via Milan and/or Verona. Then south to San Marino, train to Rome or Florence depending on how much time I have left and then roughly along the coast to the French border. If anyone has experience on these areas I'd love to hear how you found the different routes and what you thought of the various cities! :)
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jamesgilbert
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by jamesgilbert »

I could hardly find any information on cycle routes in Italy last year, I just ended up following minor-looking roads on the map. Generally it worked well although there were a few less enjoyable moments on busy roads with Italian drivers. I found this website but couldn't really work it out: http://www.piste-ciclabili.com/ I did actually find one good cycling route completely by accident, between Lake Garda and Brescia. Luckily the signs were good, as the minor roads it followed didn't exist on my map.

I used the green and yellow "Touring Editore" maps, 1:200 000 scale. They aren't amazing but I only got lost a few times...

From Milan there is a string of incredible cities across the north of Italy: Bergamo, Brescia, Verona, Vicenza, Padua, leading to Venice. And they all happen to be about a day's cycling apart! Good luck with Venice, possibly the least cycle friendly city in Europe!
iviehoff
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by iviehoff »

Italian mapping is dreadful. It's one of those Italian dysfunctionalities which indicates it hasn't quite made it into the club of properly run countries yet, even though its GDP did briefly overtake Britain's about 20 years back. And they don't spend much money on social infrastructure like children's playgrounds either, so expecting to find much in the way of cycle routes is wishful thinking, though there are probably a few model projects here and there. In a few popular tourist/mountain areas you can find a German/Austrian produced map which will probably be a bit better than the local one, though even those aren't perfect. The other option is to use GPS, because those have to have the actual roads on them.
andymiller
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by andymiller »

You could try my website, lots and lots of resources - and as well as the route guides I've produced myself (with maps and gps downloads) there's also information about other useful websites.

http://italy-cycling-guide.info

iviehoff wrote:Italian mapping is dreadful. It's one of those Italian dysfunctionalities which indicates it hasn't quite made it into the club of properly run countries yet, even though its GDP did briefly overtake Britain's about 20 years back. And they don't spend much money on social infrastructure like children's playgrounds either, so expecting to find much in the way of cycle routes is wishful thinking, though there are probably a few model projects here and there. In a few popular tourist/mountain areas you can find a German/Austrian produced map which will probably be a bit better than the local one, though even those aren't perfect. The other option is to use GPS, because those have to have the actual roads on them.


Erm. The Touring Club Italiano 1:200,000 map is excellent for touring and personally I find it better than the Michelin equivalents.

I used to think that Kompass were a German firm but actually I think they may be an Italian from: (see this page) have their head office is in northern Italy near Bozen (Bolzano). I can't say that with absolute certainty, though. There are other good Italian map producers including Tabacco.

There isn't really an equivalent of the Ordnance Survey, so the Italian mapping community have put a lot of time into Open Street Map and it's very reliable.

I haven't totalled up how many kilometres of traffic-free cycle paths there are in Italy. It must run into thousands. But sadly considerably more than in the UK (and I wouldn't mind betting, more than in France).

Check out this flickr album of pictures I've taken of cycleways in Italy:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/118439818 ... 906681935/

A lot more than few model projects.

Living as we do in a country where every day there seems to be a new mis-selling scandal (not to mention Jimmy Saville etc), and it sometimes seems that if people are not lying, cheating and rigging markets they are busy filing personal injury claims, I'm not sure we have any right to be lecturing about 'dysfunctionalities'. The OP wanted to know about cycling in Italy: you obviously know very little about Italy, or cycling in Italy, so why don't you keep your ignorant chauvinist prejudices to yourself?
Italy Cycling Guide - a resource for cycle touring in Italy.
randomblue
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by randomblue »

Thanks for the replies!

That website is the only one I found with anything useful on so a massive thank you for putting it together! I've mainly been travelling using open cycle maps but it looks like there's a massive gulf in the middle of the route I want to take. Before anyone says it no it's not because of mountains. But I think there are routes on your site which should fill the gap! Just wanted to be sure I wasn't just typing in the wrong thing and missing a tourist office run overview of all routes throughout the country!

Thanks again!
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mjr
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by mjr »

Does Italy use the same hand signals? What are the junction priorities? Other practical differences? Didn't find this on Italy cycling guide, but it seems to use a restricted template if you're on a mobile.

http://www.bicitalia.org/ has some routes but also little info on these practicalities, that I can understand, anyway.
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Sweep
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by Sweep »

Beautiful pictures indeed in Mr Miller's flickr stream.

It is though notable that the vast vast majority of them are in the north.

Pretty far north in some/many cases

And some of those places almost consider themselves a place apart from some of their "countrymen"

Have always been somewhat interested in whether Mr Miller has any Italian blood in view of some of his responses.

Have asked but never had an answer.

I have a certain sympathy for iviehoff's view but won't go there as it may send things away from the OP's request for help.

Folk wanting to explore Italian society can find much online.

Or if in London, ask an Italian - lots of them around.

I would commend GPS and openstreetmaps to the OP.

And of course Mr Miller's web page guide.

Am not the greatest fan of the TCI 200,000 maps but they are the best you will get in many areas.
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Sweep
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by Sweep »

PS - if the OP is going to end up in Rome and then head up the (presumably) west coast to France, you could always try this - though it is challenging as the vid will show.

http://vimeo.com/65552050

No I haven't ridden it.

I know someone who went to Rome for the big annual critical mass recently and he was thinking of trying it.

A day trip to Ostia Antica is also to be recommended.

Much underrated/not appreciated.
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Vorpal
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by Vorpal »

There are lots of routes on http://www.piste-ciclabili.com/ They also have a forum, so if you have questions about a route in a particular area, you can ask. There's another forum, dedicated to cycle touring at http://www.ilcicloviaggiatore.it/forum/index.php Google translate seems to be mostly adequate for them.

I have mainly used paper road maps (Michelin), touring Italy, then bought local maps when I needed them to supplement the road maps. Touring Club Italiano are fine, and probably a bit better then the Michelin ones. They don't show all minor roads, but you're unlikely to get lost following them. Look for them in bike shops and outfitters in Italy.

Bikeline do some guides, as well... http://www.esterbauer.com/db_rtb_detail ... ode=TOSC_E

There are some other threads about touring in Italy.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=67075 links to another.
You should find others with the search tool.
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Sweep
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by Sweep »

Vorpal wrote:They don't show all minor roads, but you're unlikely to get lost following them. .


Being an awkward sod i am rather wedded to the idea of maps showing the roads i am afraid. And on a bike it's the minor roads I am interested in. If not actually lost I have ended up having to turn back and add extra miles as a result of following TCI maps and their equivelents in Sardinia. Usually as a result of trhing to second guess the mapmakers and the lie of the land.
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Vorpal
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by Vorpal »

As far as I could tell, the minor roads that aren't shown were gravel ones that weren't necessarily suitable for a touring cyclist. I did follow a few and ended up going back where I came from, but I didn't really know what I was doing. If I had had an ordnance survey equivalent, maybe I would have know that they weren't on the road map because they were dead ends, or maybe I would have found that if I'd just walked the bike up the hill, I could've carried on.

There were also plenty of roads that were on the map that were barely navigable bumpy gravel tracks. :D
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Sweep
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by Sweep »

Hi vorpal

Your experience sounds similar to mine then.

Numerous examples of following thin lines on maps and trying to guess whether that line actually carries on to join another clearly marked road or whether it is indeed a dead end. No real way of knowing in Sardinia for sure as often the first bit of such a road will be properly tarmacced. The road may then stop altogether or, very often, just become a "white road" with a firm surface but no tarmac - perfectly rideable and I have ridden many such roads on a Brompton. Many many of these perfectly rideable/driveable roads are not marked. They are however often used by the locals. And are very useful. Sometimes these roads have a small stretch that is unsurfaced or very rough and then the tarmac/hard covered white road will resume. Sometimes this might be because of a local administration boundary or, I sometimes suspect, it's to introduce a short "problem" to discourage heavy use of a road. So, yes, sometimes, if you had walked over that hill you may have found that the road continued :)

I consider generally available mapping in Italy very poor. A few years ago I once asked an Italian where I could get better (what I considered "proper" maps) from and it was suggested that I should get some military maps. Which were available, though at substantial cost. Since then of course openstreetmap has come along.

Why the knowledge of the homeland was some some sort of preserve of the military I have no idea. But knowing Italy maybe akin to mass being in Latin until modern times (you need the priests to lead you to salvation), appalling mass of often contradictory laws (you need one of the all too many lawyers to guide you to salvation).

And as Pasolini once said, the modern politicians have adopted/adapted the language of the priests so best get in with a party to guide you through the maze.

openstreetmap still very pretty limited in Sardinia but I am sure it will get there. I am very often riding off-map and offopenstreetmap and I stress that this is not on a mountain bike - in fact on a very delicate (not Brompton) folder. I have a free paper map with essentially the same data as TCI and it has quite a few of my notes/lines on it to fill in the gaps.

If the OP should head Tuscany way and be intersred in the Via Francigena there is an excellent 1:50,0000 srip map.
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jamesgilbert
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by jamesgilbert »

@andymiller Wow, I wish I'd known about your website last summer! The "Lakes of Lombardia and Piemonte" route would have been ideal and we'd have avoided some quite unpleasant busy roads. Interestingly I asked at the tourist information office in Brescia, and all they had was a leaflet about short circular rides in the area.
mnichols
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by mnichols »

Hi, I cycled end to end of Italy last year and across the roof of Italy this year - starting in Venice up to to Switzerland and down to San Remo and along to Nice.

I used the maps on ridewithgps.com, my garmin and osmand on my android phone. My friend took pages ripped out of a road atlas. They were all fine

I had excellent route planning advice on the CTC forum which was invaluable, including from Andy Miller

We didn't plan to use cycle paths but found them frequently. IMHO there are far more than in the UK

I also felt the reputation that Italian drivers have is undeserved. I've never had a problem in four cycling trips even in the big cities like Rome, Naples and Milan.

Its a fantastic and beautiful country....enjoy
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Sweep
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Re: Italy cycle resources?

Post by Sweep »

mnichols wrote:
I also felt the reputation that Italian drivers have is undeserved.



Based on my experience cycling (not as a pedestrian) in Sardinia, I'd agree with you.

mnichols wrote:
I've never had a problem in four cycling trips even in the big cities like Rome, Naples and Milan.



Did you cycle through the middle of Rome and Naples?

On the streets? (as opposed to separate cycline lane?

thanks for the interesting post
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